Elroy, Ellsworth, Pluto, Goofy, what's an animal and what's a person

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Interesting note on the matter of Dumbo: we had so far assumed that Timothy Q. Mouse was a bit of an exception in the Dumbo cast in being shown to talk both to the human Ringmaster, and to the other, less anthropomorphized animals in the circus. But a video just pointed out the very interesting fact that the Ringmaster knows who "Dumbo" is when Timothy tells him his plan, even though that name had been chosen by the elephant matrons. 

[TheMidgetMoose]

Mar 27, 2019 18:59:40 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Interesting note on the matter of Dumbo: we had so far assumed that Timothy Q. Mouse was a bit of an exception in the Dumbo cast in being shown to talk both to the human Ringmaster, and to the other, less anthropomorphized animals in the circus. But a video just pointed out the very interesting fact that the Ringmaster knows who "Dumbo" is when Timothy tells him, even though that name had been chosen by the elephant matrons. 

I, too, watch CinemaSins. At least I'm assuming their "Everything Wrong With Dumbo" video is the video you're referring to. It would be highly coincidental if it's not.

I think this observation certainly does raise some questions about the Dumbo-universe. Just how intelligent are these animals? Do they willingly work for the circus? Is it a known fact that animals can talk? My understanding is that there are some comics that tie Dumbo into the Duck/Mouse universe, so I suppose one could attempt to apply these questions to the world of Donald Duck as well. That said, combining Dumbo's universe with Donald Duck's only confuses things more, as we now have to reckon with animals who can talk like the animals in Dumbo, but behave more like and hold jobs more akin to the humans in Dumbo.

Completely ignoring Dumbo's ties to the Duck Universe and looking at it from a cartoon-only standpoint, I do indeed think that there is evidence that, in the Dumbo-universe, animals and humans can communicate. Whether this is a well-known fact in-universe, I do not know. Anyhow, Dumbo is very clearly tied to Lambert the Sheepish Lion as they both feature an accident-prone stork voiced by Sterling Holloway delivering baby animals. I don't know if any sort of media has confirmed that the stork from Dumbo and the stork from Lambert the Sheepish Lion are the same or not, but I think the implication that they are one and the same is pretty clear.

The wolf from Lambert the Sheepish Lion has a very similar design to and may even be the same character as the wolf from Disney's Peter and the Wolf. Peter and the Wolf portrays Peter freely communicating with two bird characters. They are able to talk to him, and he appears to understand. I think a cat may even talk to him in some scenes. Obviously, the links between Peter and the Wolf and Dumbo aren't too strong, but, if we can in fact say that Peter and the Wolf does take place in the same universe as Dumbo, then we can now prove that animals in the Dumbo-universe can communicate with the humans and that the Ringmaster knowing Jumbo, Jr. as Dumbo was not just some coincidence.

It has just occurred to me that a lot of animals in Dumbo where some sort of clothing. Timothy and the crows all wear at least some clothes. Dumbo has a hat, and even his mother is dressed up a little. That, in my mind, brings questions as to why certain animals are not shown wearing clothes. I recall lions, tigers, hippos, a gorilla, bears, giraffes, and likely many other animals being shown as unclothed. Why? Are the elephants, Timothy, and the crows all, at least on some level, human, just as Mickey and Donald? If so, then I have to question why they are so animal-like. Do we have another Horace Horsecollar situation going on here, where a character is both comfortable pulling a plow on all fours and playing instruments on two legs?

[xanderares]

Mar 27, 2019 20:31:17 GMT TheMidgetMoose said:

Mar 27, 2019 18:59:40 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Interesting note on the matter of Dumbo: we had so far assumed that Timothy Q. Mouse was a bit of an exception in the Dumbo cast in being shown to talk both to the human Ringmaster, and to the other, less anthropomorphized animals in the circus. But a video just pointed out the very interesting fact that the Ringmaster knows who "Dumbo" is when Timothy tells him, even though that name had been chosen by the elephant matrons. 

I, too, watch CinemaSins. At least I'm assuming their "Everything Wrong With Dumbo" video is the video you're referring to. It would be highly coincidental if it's not.

I think this observation certainly does raise some questions about the Dumbo-universe. Just how intelligent are these animals? Do they willingly work for the circus? Is it a known fact that animals can talk? My understanding is that there are some comics that tie Dumbo into the Duck/Mouse universe, so I suppose one could attempt to apply these questions to the world of Donald Duck as well. That said, combining Dumbo's universe with Donald Duck's only confuses things more, as we now have to reckon with animals who can talk like the animals in Dumbo, but behave more like and hold jobs more akin to the humans in Dumbo.

Completely ignoring Dumbo's ties to the Duck Universe and looking at it from a cartoon-only standpoint, I do indeed think that there is evidence that, in the Dumbo-universe, animals and humans can communicate. Whether this is a well-known fact in-universe, I do not know. Anyhow, Dumbo is very clearly tied to Lambert the Sheepish Lion as they both feature an accident-prone stork voiced by Sterling Holloway delivering baby animals. I don't know if any sort of media has confirmed that the stork from Dumbo and the stork from Lambert the Sheepish Lion are the same or not, but I think the implication that they are one and the same is pretty clear.

The wolf from Lambert the Sheepish Lion has a very similar design to and may even be the same character as the wolf from Disney's Peter and the Wolf. Peter and the Wolf portrays Peter freely communicating with two bird characters. They are able to talk to him, and he appears to understand. I think a cat may even talk to him in some scenes. Obviously, the links between Peter and the Wolf and Dumbo aren't too strong, but, if we can in fact say that Peter and the Wolf does take place in the same universe as Dumbo, then we can now prove that animals in the Dumbo-universe can communicate with the humans and that the Ringmaster knowing Jumbo, Jr. as Dumbo was not just some coincidence.

It has just occurred to me that a lot of animals in Dumbo where some sort of clothing. Timothy and the crows all wear at least some clothes. Dumbo has a hat, and even his mother is dressed up a little. That, in my mind, brings questions as to why certain animals are not shown wearing clothes. I recall lions, tigers, hippos, a gorilla, bears, giraffes, and likely many other animals being shown as unclothed. Why? Are the elephants, Timothy, and the crows all, at least on some level, human, just as Mickey and Donald? If so, then I have to question why they are so animal-like. Do we have another Horace Horsecollar situation going on here, where a character is both comfortable pulling a plow on all fours and playing instruments on two legs?

I think magic given anthropomorphism to a few of animal like the sorcerer Astaroth do in Bedknobs and Broomsticks

[TheMidgetMoose]

Mar 28, 2019 10:48:17 GMT xanderares said:

Mar 27, 2019 20:31:17 GMT TheMidgetMoose said:

I think magic given anthropomorphism to a few of animal like the sorcerer Astaroth do in Bedknobs and Broomsticks

I must admit that I've never seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to. I'm curious, though, is there any evidence that Bedknobs and Broomsticks is in the same universe as Dumbo (and possibly Lambert the Sheepish Lion and Peter and the Wolf)?

[xanderares]

Mar 28, 2019 15:16:14 GMT TheMidgetMoose said:

Mar 28, 2019 10:48:17 GMT xanderares said:

I think magic given anthropomorphism to a few of animal like the sorcerer Astaroth do in Bedknobs and Broomsticks

I must admit that I've never seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to. I'm curious, though, is there any evidence that Bedknobs and Broomsticks is in the same universe as Dumbo (and possibly Lambert the Sheepish Lion and Peter and the Wolf)?

It was a bit of an amalgam of various disney movies, there was the Baloo bear from "The Jungle Book", Prince John from "Robin Hood" and the elephants with Timothy Q. Mouse from "Dumbo", but all outside of their usual character, like Donald Duck in the parodies.
Furthermore it is a film that mixes live-action and animations, I can't say if it can define the same universe.