Ludwig Von Drake

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Oct 25, 2019 22:17:57 GMT LP said:

I don't know about the Ludwig-thing, but Otto is Daisy's father in Johnny A Grote's family tree, which can be found on Gilles Maurice's Duck trees-page. Coincidentally enough, the portrait used to represent Otto in the tree is fairly similar to Daisy's father from Donald's Diary.

But the Grote tree isn't considered an official source, is it?

[Fethryfan]

Oct 25, 2019 22:17:57 GMT LP said:

Oct 25, 2019 21:53:29 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

The Scrooge McDuck Wiki says, "Ludwig von Drake has been referred to as a direct uncle of Daisy Duck" but provides no source. Where does this idea come from? (Additionally, the page treats "Otto Duck" as Daisy's father's official name, which I don't believe is accurate, but that's another issue altogether.)

I don't know about the Ludwig-thing, but Otto is Daisy's father in Johnny A Grote's family tree, which can be found on Gilles Maurice's Duck trees-page. Coincidentally enough, the portrait used to represent Otto in the tree is fairly similar to Daisy's father from Donald's Diary.

Ludwig is represented as Daisy's uncle in a french family tree that seems to be based on Volker Reiche's tree

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Okay, this started out as a joke even in my mind, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it's not incompatible with both the comics-verse and the information we just learned about Donald's "father".

Looking back at the radio jingle ...

My Father left my Mother,
And all his children, too,
He left her for another,
And a darned good riddance. I’m telling you!

His conduct was a shame

It's significant that Donald says his father left "all his children". This suggests more than two (i.e., not just Donald and Della), and also he seems to be separating himself from said "children" (i.e., he didn't say "all us children, too"). Who "the other" his father left his mother for is vague here, but his conduct is clearly beyond the pale.

So here's the theory that I came up with ... Donald and Della Duck are the children of Hortense and Quackmore Duck. Quackmore dies shortly after we last see him in "The Empire Builder of Calisota", when Donald and Della are still very young (maybe under ten?). Hortense is heartbroken, but manages to find love with Mr. Drake, whom she marries and who adopts her children (Donald and Della take his last name). They move from Duckburg to Burbank. Donald would begin to think of Mr. Drake as his father, since he would be the man who raised him for the most part. But then Mr. Drake develops a relationship with his adult stepdaughter (the "other" in the jingle, his conduct was a "shame"). Hortense discovers this and divorces Mr. Drake, Della and Mr. Drake get married, and HD&L are born, with the last name "Drake". Hortense reverts to the last name "Duck" in memory of Quackmore (and because she did not want to go back to "McDuck" since she is still at odds with Scrooge who remains out of the picture at this stage), and Donald follows suit. He considers "Duck" to be his mother's maiden name, although it technically isn't. Then Mr. Drake, being the cad that he is, leaves his new wife Della and "all his children" (i.e., HD&L), never to be seen again. Della, as you can imagine, is probably not on good terms with Hortense or Donald at this point.  But then she meets an as-yet unspecified fate and it falls upon Donald to adopt HD&L (Hortense is possibly too unwell to shoulder that responsibility as we've discussed on other threads). Donald changes their last name to "Duck" when he legally adopts them, since the name "Drake" carries unpleasant memories associated with the breakup of their family.

[Fethryfan]

Oct 26, 2019 13:32:09 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Okay, this started out as a joke even in my mind, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it's not incompatible with both the comics-verse and the information we just learned about Donald's "father".

Looking back at the radio jingle ...

My Father left my Mother,
And all his children, too,
He left her for another,
And a darned good riddance. I’m telling you!

His conduct was a shame

It's significant that Donald says his father left "all his children". This suggests more than two (i.e., not just Donald and Della), and also he seems to be separating himself from said "children" (i.e., he didn't say "all us children, too"). Who "the other" his father left his mother for is vague here, but his conduct is clearly beyond the pale.

So here's the theory that I came up with ... Donald and Della Duck are the children of Hortense and Quackmore Duck. Quackmore dies shortly after we last see him in "The Empire Builder of Calisota", when Donald and Della are still very young (maybe under ten?). Hortense is heartbroken, but manages to find love with Mr. Drake, whom she marries and who adopts her children (Donald and Della take his last name). They move from Duckburg to Burbank. Donald would begin to think of Mr. Drake as his father, since he would be the man who raised him for the most part. But then Mr. Drake develops a relationship with his adult stepdaughter (the "other" in the jingle, his conduct was a "shame"). Hortense discovers this and divorces Mr. Drake, Della and Mr. Drake get married, and HD&L are born, with the last name "Drake". Hortense reverts to the last name "Duck" in memory of Quackmore (and because she did not want to go back to "McDuck" since she is still at odds with Scrooge who remains out of the picture at this stage), and Donald follows suit. He considers "Duck" to be his mother's maiden name, although it technically isn't. Then Mr. Drake, being the cad that he is, leaves his new wife Della and "all his children" (i.e., HD&L), never to be seen again. Della, as you can imagine, is probably not on good terms with Hortense or Donald at this point.  But then she meets an as-yet unspecified fate and it falls upon Donald to adopt HD&L (Hortense is possibly too unwell to shoulder that responsibility as we've discussed on other threads). Donald changes their last name to "Duck" when he legally adopts them, since the name "Drake" carries unpleasant memories associated with the breakup of their family.

Althought it is possible, i do not think Della would have an affair with his stepfather. If HDL are Mr. Drake's children with Della, it is more likely that he abused her...

The fact Hortense could not be well raised a question in my head. Downy died in her 50s, and was said to be too tired before her death in 1897. Perhaps the O'Drake family has some kind of hereditary disease that both Downy and Hortense had?

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Oct 26, 2019 14:17:05 GMT Fethryfan said:

Althought it is possible, i do not think Della would betray her own mother have an affair with his stepfather. If HDL are Mr. Drake's children with Della, it is more likely that he abused her...

The fact Hortense could not be well raised a question in my head. Downy died in her 50s, and was said to be too tired before her death in 1897. Perhaps the O'Drake family has some kind of degenrative disease that both Downy and Hortense had? And maybe her other children could have been affected by it too? At age 35, Scrooge was not able to see basically nothing without his glasses...

We know next-to-nothing about Della (at least, the non-DuckTales '17 version of Della), so who's to say whether this would be in character for her or not? I did think of the abuse angle, but that seems a bit too dark, and makes HD&L's parentage even sadder. Although I do think Della was very young when they were born.

Hortense was (per Rosa's timeline) in her late sixties around the time of "Christmas on Bear Mountain" ; still young, but old enough that a neurodegenerative disease like frontotemporal dementia or diseases affecting mobility like Parkinson disease may manifest. Although if that was Hortense we saw in "Donald Duck's Best Christmas" she seemed not to be in too bad shape two years before "Bear Mountain".

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Oh, and maybe this "Seppi Deppi" character (about whom I admittedly know nothing except that he's supposed to be HD&L's uncle)is the son of Hortense and Mr. Drake, and thus, Donald and Della's half-brother? Although Hortense was already in her mid-forties when Donald and Della were born, so it's unlikely she would have had any more children. Perhaps he's Mr. Drake's son from earlier marriage (although then he would only be a step-uncle to HD&L, unless of course Mr. Drake is also their father, in which case Seppi Deppi would be their half-brother).

[LP]

I like your theories, Baar Baar. I wouldn't say it will enter my head-canon, but it's a neat solution to all of this. I enjoy it when characters are allowed to have darker elements in their backstory, as it seems more real than what Disney usually to does.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

If you think about it, it's kind of remarkable that Disney had Donald not only refer to his parents, but actually reveal that his father cheated on his mother, in that radio show. Also, did Clarence Nash actually sing that rhyme in Donald's voice? It's hard to imagine it being comprehensible, especially in the early 30's when Donald squawked more than spoke.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

And, not that I include anything from "80 is Prachtig!" in my headcanon, but one thing that bugged me about that story was how Donald seemed surprised to learn that Della had kids. How could he not be aware of something as important as that, considering that by all accounts he and Della were quite close? But if Della had become estranged from her brother because she married their former stepfather, and had just re-established ties, it sort of explains it. 

[Minotaur]

Oct 26, 2019 13:32:09 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

So here's the theory that I came up with ... Donald and Della Duck are the children of Hortense and Quackmore Duck. Quackmore dies shortly after we last see him in "The Empire Builder of Calisota", when Donald and Della are still very young (maybe under ten?). Hortense is heartbroken, but manages to find love with Mr. Drake, whom she marries and who adopts her children (Donald and Della take his last name). They move from Duckburg to Burbank. Donald would begin to think of Mr. Drake as his father, since he would be the man who raised him for the most part. But then Mr. Drake develops a relationship with his adult stepdaughter (the "other" in the jingle, his conduct was a "shame"). Hortense discovers this and divorces Mr. Drake, Della and Mr. Drake get married, and HD&L are born, with the last name "Drake". Hortense reverts to the last name "Duck" in memory of Quackmore (and because she did not want to go back to "McDuck" since she is still at odds with Scrooge who remains out of the picture at this stage), and Donald follows suit. He considers "Duck" to be his mother's maiden name, although it technically isn't. Then Mr. Drake, being the cad that he is, leaves his new wife Della and "all his children" (i.e., HD&L), never to be seen again. Della, as you can imagine, is probably not on good terms with Hortense or Donald at this point.  But then she meets an as-yet unspecified fate and it falls upon Donald to adopt HD&L (Hortense is possibly too unwell to shoulder that responsibility as we've discussed on other threads). Donald changes their last name to "Duck" when he legally adopts them, since the name "Drake" carries unpleasant memories associated with the breakup of their family. 

So Mr. Drake must be Woody Allen !

Oct 26, 2019 14:17:05 GMT Fethryfan said:

Althought it is possible, i do not think Della would have an affair with his stepfather. If HDL are Mr. Drake's children with Della, it is more likely that he abused her...

The fact Hortense could not be well raised a question in my head. Downy died in her 50s, and was said to be too tired before her death in 1897. Perhaps the O'Drake family has some kind of hereditary disease that both Downy and Hortense had?

That's exactly what I am thinking. I guess the O'Drake lineage has MS. That would explain why women are more likely to be affected. On the other hand, despite wearing glasses, Scrooge looks very healthy at his age.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Nov 3, 2019 3:52:34 GMT Minotaur said:

That's exactly what I am thinking. I guess the O'Drake lineage has MS. That would explain why women are more likely to be affected. On the other hand, despite wearing glasses, Scrooge looks very healthy at his age.

I do like the idea of Hortense passing in 1947 from an unspecified neurodegenerative condition; as we have discussed on other threads, it ties many things together nicely and gives Scrooge's reaching out to Donald and the nephews an additional emotional component. If Best Christmas-Grandma is indeed Hortense, she seems to be doing fairly well two years prior to her death; perhaps it was a stroke?  (Note that Donald never refers to Best Christmas-Grandma as "Grandma" although the boys do; so it's still compatible with the theory that she's Hortense.) Downy died fairly young as well, but it seems pretty sudden based on the sequence of letters Scrooge received. We don't have many details on her death. MS is unlikely since it's a chronic debilitating disease and in any case not inherited as such; there's a genetic predisposition with probable as-yet unspecified environmental triggers. Yes, like all probable auto-immune conditions there's a female predisposition, but it wouldn't affect female members of a family and spare males in the way that's being suggested. As for Scrooge and his glasses, it seems at first that he needed them for reading but in 1885, when he bought them, he was only 18, far too young to be presbyopic. Maybe he was mildly myopic and needed them since he was a child but never realized it until his late teens (not unusual at all; my sister, for example, started wearing glasses, for myopia, when she was in her late twenties. She somehow just got by until then).

[TheMidgetMoose]

Nov 3, 2019 3:52:34 GMT Minotaur said:

Oct 26, 2019 14:17:05 GMT Fethryfan said:

Althought it is possible, i do not think Della would have an affair with his stepfather. If HDL are Mr. Drake's children with Della, it is more likely that he abused her...

The fact Hortense could not be well raised a question in my head. Downy died in her 50s, and was said to be too tired before her death in 1897. Perhaps the O'Drake family has some kind of hereditary disease that both Downy and Hortense had?

That's exactly what I am thinking. I guess the O'Drake lineage has MS. That would explain why women are more likely to be affected. On the other hand, despite wearing glasses, Scrooge looks very healthy at his age.

I think Scrooge suffers from some other health issues as well, mostly dealing with memory troubles. Back to the Klondike makes this pretty clear. Scrooge doesn't even remember Donald's name at one point in the story, and he is prescribed capsules to take every 12 hours to help him with his memory.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Nov 4, 2019 1:26:33 GMT TheMidgetMoose said:

I think Scrooge suffers from some other health issues as well, mostly dealing with memory troubles. Back to the Klondike makes this pretty clear. Scrooge doesn't even remember Donald's name at one point in the story, and he is prescribed capsules to take every 12 hours to help him with his memory.

That's a good point. Scrooge's "Blinkus of the Thinkus" (Barks' comic-book name for dementia) is never brought up in another Barks story. Rosa hardly ever acknowledges it, and it seems out of character for Scrooge otherwise.  I'm not sure what to make of it, but I wish we had that medication in our universe!

[crazycatlord]

Nov 4, 2019 1:31:06 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Nov 4, 2019 1:26:33 GMT TheMidgetMoose said:

I think Scrooge suffers from some other health issues as well, mostly dealing with memory troubles. Back to the Klondike makes this pretty clear. Scrooge doesn't even remember Donald's name at one point in the story, and he is prescribed capsules to take every 12 hours to help him with his memory.

That's a good point. Scrooge's "Blinkus of the Thinkus" (Barks' comic-book name for dementia) is never brought up in another Barks story. Rosa hardly ever acknowledges it, and it seems out of character for Scrooge otherwise.  I'm not sure what to make of it, but I wish we had that medication in our universe!

In the 11th chapter of Alla ricerca della pietra zodiacale, Scrooge seems to have a very bad memory )although about issues that occured almost a century before...).

About the glasses - at least in Uncle Scrooge's Glasses, he seems to see almost nothing without glasses.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Nov 4, 2019 14:43:21 GMT crazycatlord said:

In the 11th chapter of Alla ricerca della pietra zodiacale, Scrooge seems to have a very bad memory )although about issues that occured almost a century before...).

About the glasses - at least in Uncle Scrooge's Glasses, he seems to see almost nothing without glasses.

As to the former ... was he forgetting historical facts? I'm not sure that's necessarily as bad as forgetting personal history, nor a sign of dementia.

As to the latter ... that suggests that he is indeed highly myopic, since people who just need reading glasses aren't nearly blind without them. As such, his needing glasses at 18 is not unusual (although how he got along till then is surprising).