Characters' Ages in Your Headcanon

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jun 4, 2020 15:47:08 GMT LP said:

I applaud you for your logic and temporal placement of the early strips, Moose! But wow, if the early Gottfredson-strips took place in 1931, then Pluto should be pretty old for a dog in "the present" of the 1950s. 

True — though usefully, the 1930's Pluto was perpetually referred to as “Pluto the Pup”, so he was meant to be a very young dog in those stories, even if he didn't always look it. It's well-established that Pluto is some weird one-of-a-kind crossbreed of a mutt; it doesn't stress my disbelief too much that this would leave Pluto with an unusually long lifespan for a dog. 

Of course, it's a nonissue for me with the Unaging Hypothesis in place. But if you want to set Mickey's Gottfredson-Murry adventures on a 1930—>1960 timeline akin to Rosa's Barksian timeline, it can be reconciled, I think, without too much chafing. Per Guinness World Records, the oldest dog in recorded history died at 29.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jun 4, 2020 16:05:55 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Jun 4, 2020 15:47:08 GMT LP said:

I applaud you for your logic and temporal placement of the early strips, Moose! But wow, if the early Gottfredson-strips took place in 1931, then Pluto should be pretty old for a dog in "the present" of the 1950s. 

True — though usefully, the 1930's Pluto was perpetually referred to as “Pluto the Pup”, so he was meant to be a very young dog in those stories, even if he didn't always look it. It's well-established that Pluto is some weird one-of-a-kind crossbreed of a mutt; it doesn't stress my disbelief too much that this would leave Pluto with an unusually long lifespan for a dog. 

Of course, it's a nonissue for me with the Unaging Hypothesis in place. But if you want to set Mickey's Gottfredson-Murry adventures on a 1930—>1960 timeline akin to Rosa's Barksian timeline, it can be reconciled, I think, without too much chafing. Per Guinness World Records, the oldest dog in recorded history died at 29.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to consider this, but ... maybe the "Pluto" of today is actually Pluto III or Pluto IV (son of a son of a son of the original). In general I dislike such logic (for example, such as when it is suggested that Goof Troop-Goofy and Pete are descendants of the originals to try and fit them in the timeline) but it realistically could work in the context of a character with a lower level of anthropomorphism (MEAS-1, as Pluto is); it's not unthinkable that Mickey might want to keep the line of his original pet going, and we've seen Pluto's puppies and Pluto Jr. before.

[Matilda]

Jun 4, 2020 16:18:17 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 4, 2020 16:05:55 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

True — though usefully, the 1930's Pluto was perpetually referred to as “Pluto the Pup”, so he was meant to be a very young dog in those stories, even if he didn't always look it. It's well-established that Pluto is some weird one-of-a-kind crossbreed of a mutt; it doesn't stress my disbelief too much that this would leave Pluto with an unusually long lifespan for a dog. 

Of course, it's a nonissue for me with the Unaging Hypothesis in place. But if you want to set Mickey's Gottfredson-Murry adventures on a 1930—>1960 timeline akin to Rosa's Barksian timeline, it can be reconciled, I think, without too much chafing. Per Guinness World Records, the oldest dog in recorded history died at 29.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to consider this, but ... maybe the "Pluto" of today is actually Pluto III or Pluto IV (son of a son of a son of the original). In general I dislike such logic (for example, such as when it is suggested that Goof Troop-Goofy and Pete are descendants of the originals to try and fit them in the timeline) but it realistically could work in the context of a character with a lower level of anthropomorphism (MEAS-1, as Pluto is); it's not unthinkable that Mickey might want to keep the line of his original pet going, and we've seen Pluto's puppies and Pluto Jr. before.

Yes, this is more thinkable for me also with regard to MEAS-1 pets than with regard to the virtual humans. It makes me think of how Lassie on TV was played by descendants of Pal, the original Lassie!

Pluto is so consistent as Mickey’s pet that it’s much more of an issue with him than it is with any of the Ducks’ pets. One can easily think that Bolivar and Tabby (and Clementine and even Rag-Ear!) lived out a normal cat/dog lifespan and died, which is why they don’t appear in many stories.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Yyeah, if I forget about my timeline ideas I can imagine there being several Bolivars (…that might actually explain the changing names: maybe Tolliver, Boliver and Bornworthy are three different generations of dogs!), but it's hard to picture Mickey getting replacement-Plutos and treating them like the original, and them acting exactly like the original. He absolutely would keep Pluto's pup(s), but not *that* way.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Boy, I never realized how much Pluto messes up the attempt to put Mickey and gang in a workable timeline. But somehow, I'm not as concerned about the chronology of the Mouseverse as I am about the Duckverse, probably because there's no Mouse equivalent of Don Rosa to make me think in those terms, and also because as far as I'm concerned, the Duckverse and Mouseverse are two separate entities with no bearing on each other (so the Duckverse can be frozen in the '50s and the Mouseverse can exist in its current state in modern times).

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jun 10, 2019 18:31:47 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Are you sure that Horace and Clarabelle are 20+ years older than Mickey?
So at age 35 Horace used to hang out with a 15 years old kid?
And in current comics Horace would be a man in his 50's?
I feel like they should not have more than eight/nine of difference...

I agree that Horace and Clarabelle are quite a bit older than Mickey and Minnie (wasn't in mentioned that in some early Gottfredson story, someone thought Minnie was Clarabelles' daughter, and Clarabelle wasn't really offended by it? If true, this also supports the filter theory), but probably not a whole generation older. A decade older, maybe? Although that does still raise the question as to why Horace and Clarabelle hang out with a couple that much younger than them. Didn't Gottfredson start drawing Horace in his rare appearances in the later strips with graying fur and reading glasses? If Mickey is in his early thirties by the time of those strips, Horace could be in his early-to-mid forties, which would match that appearance.

[TheMidgetMoose]

Jun 5, 2020 0:05:27 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 10, 2019 18:31:47 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Are you sure that Horace and Clarabelle are 20+ years older than Mickey?
So at age 35 Horace used to hang out with a 15 years old kid?
And in current comics Horace would be a man in his 50's?
I feel like they should not have more than eight/nine of difference...

I agree that Horace and Clarabelle are quite a bit older than Mickey and Minnie (wasn't in mentioned that in some early Gottfredson story, someone thought Minnie was Clarabelles' daughter, and Clarabelle wasn't really offended by it? If true, this also supports the filter theory), but probably not a whole generation older. A decade older, maybe? Although that does still raise the question as to why Horace and Clarabelle hang out with a couple that much younger than them. Didn't Gottfredson start drawing Horace in his rare appearances in the later strips with graying fur and reading glasses? If Mickey is in his early thirties by the time of those strips, Horace could be in his early-to-mid forties, which would match that appearance.

The story where Minnie is mistaken for Clarabelle's daughter is The Ransom Plot. Also, and my memory could be tricking me, but I believe I remember Clarabelle going to visit Minnie's mother in Mr. Slicker and the Egg Robbers. This causes my personal headcanon to be that Horace and Clarabelle were initially closer to Mickey's and Minnie's older relatives but slowly became closer to Mickey and Minnie as the mouse pair grew older.

[LP]

Hi, I'm resurrecting this thread, rather than creating a new one. Hopefully, the following is relevant enough to not start an interwebs-riot.

I've never been a fan of the idea of a floating timeline, that characters never age. I would much prefer if the stories took place one after the other. However, the problem with applying this to the Duck-universe is that the characters' appearance would change, due to them aging. Huey, Dewey, and Louie can't both look like children in 1942 and 1967. 

If we're going by Don Rosa's timeline, the kids were born in 1940. So my question is something like, how late could stories be set whilst HDL's design is still the same? They look to be around 10, so 1950 is no problem. Barks had them in kindergarten in some stories, but I guess they could pass for five-year-olds with this design too. Rosa's Last Sled to Dawson is explicably set in 1954. That would make them 14. That's really starting to stretching it for me. You'd think a teenager would be slightly taller, what with the puberty and such.

Worth noting is that Barks used to draw HDL more chunky early on than in his later years. And maybe it's just me subconsciously trying to rationalize things, but I think Rosa's HDL look a tiny bit slimmer and therefore taller... although that might just be an illusion on my part.

Some images for reference... in case you don't know what they look like, I guess... :

[That Duckfan]

It might be a helpful distinction for you that Rosa's birth dates can be taken with a grain of salt. HDL were born circa 1940, not necessarily in 1940.

One of the problems that pops up is that we have a pretty good idea of how a young duck develops thanks to The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck. Young Scrooge's eyes reach his beak by age 12. Of course, not everyone develops in the same way, and many adults keep their small eyes, such as Matilda. That leaves you with a very narrow timeframe. Lucky for you, I'm not aware of any explicit references to Rosa stories past 1954.

Implicit references? Plenty. There's a reason why my Rosa-timeline extends into the early '60s.

And of course, if you were to bring Barks into the mix, he gives some pretty definite dates in a couple of stories, usually the date of publication.

Rip van Donald [Donald believes he slept for 40 years] 9.7: As things look to Donald's dizzy eyes! "1990! So this is the world I wake up in!"
Heirloom Watch 6.6: "And that little hand points to the year!" "1955! Correct to the very century!"
The Fabulous Philosopher's Stone 2.6: "I bet! And you think you know where that ball is today?" "Not exactly! But I know where it was 845 years ago!" [in 1110]
Back to Long Ago! 12.5: "You must be thinking of a couple of sailors who lived 392 years ago! Toodle-de-oo!" [December 6-9, 1564 -- making it 1956]

[RobbK1]

Jun 4, 2020 23:51:48 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Boy, I never realized how much Pluto messes up the attempt to put Mickey and gang in a workable timeline. But somehow, I'm not as concerned about the chronology of the Mouseverse as I am about the Duckverse, probably because there's no Mouse equivalent of Don Rosa to make me think in those terms, and also because as far as I'm concerned, the Duckverse and Mouseverse are two separate entities with no bearing on each other (so the Duckverse can be frozen in the '50s and the Mouseverse can exist in its current state in modern times).

Pluto couldn't have lived 30+ years as a real Earth dog, unless we assume that in Disney's Mouse/Duck Universe, dogs live longer than in ours.  It is much more plausible for us to believe that there were 2 Plutos.  Mickey kept one of the male pups sired by Pluto in his old age, with his younger cousin from his mother's side.  Mickey still had contact with the owners of Pluto's mother.  We did that with our 2 family Huskies, Chinook1 and Chimnook 2, and my sister did that with her 2 Golden Retrievers; the fathers and their sons looked virtually identical.  We just have to assume that unfortunately, we didn't see the scenario in which Mickey receives the puppy, and may have seen Pluto II one time while he was a puppy, when Pluto I had to take care of a whole brood of infant pups that looked like him. 

[LP]

Jul 1, 2021 18:44:48 GMT That Duckfan said:

It might be a helpful distinction for you that Rosa's birth dates can be taken with a grain of salt. HDL were born circa 1940, not necessarily in 1940.

One of the problems that pops up is that we have a pretty good idea of how a young duck develops thanks to The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck. Young Scrooge's eyes reach his beak by age 12. Of course, not everyone develops in the same way, and many adults keep their small eyes, such as Matilda. That leaves you with a very narrow timeframe. Lucky for you, I'm not aware of any explicit references to Rosa stories past 1954.

Implicit references? Plenty. There's a reason why my Rosa-timeline extends into the early '60s.

And of course, if you were to bring Barks into the mix, he gives some pretty definite dates in a couple of stories, usually the date of publication.

Rip van Donald [Donald believes he slept for 40 years] 9.7: As things look to Donald's dizzy eyes! "1990! So this is the world I wake up in!"
Heirloom Watch 6.6: "And that little hand points to the year!" "1955! Correct to the very century!"
The Fabulous Philosopher's Stone 2.6: "I bet! And you think you know where that ball is today?" "Not exactly! But I know where it was 845 years ago!" [in 1110]
Back to Long Ago! 12.5: "You must be thinking of a couple of sailors who lived 392 years ago! Toodle-de-oo!" [December 6-9, 1564 -- making it 1956]

It's true that the 1940-date is just an approximate (my own head canon-timeline places their birth in 1942.) Anyways, the exact year of their birth isn't super-important. 
That being said, your timeline likely has them born in or around 1940 too. If it extends into the 60s, they would be in their early 20s by the end, while still keeping their childlike appearance. We might have discussed this in the past, but how do you explain that? I might accept them being 15, but 22 is too old. 

Here are the only three designs I know of of older Huey, Dewey, and Louie. All of these have eyes that do not touch their beaks. Notably, the black-and-white one is drawn by Rosa, meaning that comparing with Scrooge's physical development is not very reliable. 


I must say that if the time period-references you listed are all that exist in Barks' work, then I'm glad he didn't reference any year past 1956! That fits with my timeline!

[That Duckfan]

Jul 1, 2021 20:56:29 GMT LP said:

I must say that if the time period-references you listed are all that exist in Barks' work, then I'm glad he didn't reference any year past 1956! That fits with my timeline!

There should be a few more out there, but these are the ones I can most readily recall. Remember, Barks is very inconsistent with dates anyway. In some stories, Scrooge has been out and about for eighty years, while in others he's 75 years old. (The latter is my canonical age for Scrooge, even if it doesn't fit with Rosa's timeline.) Similarly, the Chugwagon Derby is held during Duckburg's sixtieth anniversary, which might signal that it takes place in 1962 --- but of course, the town may have been incorporated a few years prior.

I'm not aware of all Barks references to the past because I haven't read all of Barks' work, let alone in English. I know there's a couple of references Rosa genuinely missed, but I'm not sure if they're significant. Of course, if we're to follow stories like The Victory Garden, Donald and the nephews already lived together during World War II -- but references like that are fairly easily ignored.

The latest real-life reference in a Barks story in my Rosa-universe timeline, excepting fashions and parodies and the like, occurs in Bongo on the Congo. Donald is a member of the Peace Corps, which was established by John F. Kennedy in March 1961. I'm not sure exactly how closely related it is to Rosa's comics, apart from the one-off reference in The Empire-Builder of Calisota. And it's not an outright date.
The latest date would be an indirect one, in Forbidden Valley. McBrine's pickled rutabagas have been in storage for thirty years, since 1927. That's a date easily fudged, of course.

I have a list of all Barks stories referenced in Rosa's work. I use it in my Rosa-universe timeline in order to keep out the noise -- Barks contradicts himself enough without having to deal with all of his stories. But it's not a very discriminate list, it also lists stories that happen to introduce certain characters or locations or references to Scrooge's past. I'm not completely happy with it, but my Rosa chronology is currently on hold.

It's true that the 1940-date is just an approximate (my own head canon-timeline places their birth in 1942.) Anyways, the exact year of their birth isn't super-important.
That being said, your timeline likely has them born in or around 1940 too. If it extends into the 60s, they would be in their early 20s by the end, while still keeping their childlike appearance. We might have discussed this in the past, but how do you explain that? I might accept them being 15, but 22 is too old.

Alright -- it's a trick! I add in one Barks story that Rosa never used in his stories, and he would certainly scoff at. That's No Fable!

It shows Scrooge and the nephews wade through the Fountain of Youth that has kept the two conquistadors young for hundreds of years. That ought to do the trick, oughtn't it? Certainly explains where Scrooge's sudden vitality comes from. I have it take place in 1950, so early enough for the nephews to age a few years from their appearances in The Recluse of McDuck Manor and W.H.A.D.A.L.O.T.T.A.J.A.R.G.O.N., but to also freeze their ages for a few years. Mentally, they still develop -- as is plainly evident in many of the comics. Those kids have wisdom beyond their years! The adults do age during this time, but in the fifteen years we see them, this doesn't greatly affect their appearance.*
My fan explanation is that by c. 1963-64, Gyro was able to invent something that blocked the Fountain's process, allowing the nephews to finally graduate school and go to college. (Donald, finally expecting some peace and quiet around the house, adopts a cat called Tabby. But that's a story for another time...)

An alternative explanation I use in a different alternate timeline is that by 1966, with Barks' retirement and Disney's passing, the magic that had sustained Duckburg for so long finally wears off, and the characters begin to age again.

*Donald is an interesting case. He's on the island for a few days, but we never actually see him drinking water from the Fountain of Youth, unlike Scrooge and the kids. My fan theory is that Scrooge and the nephews stop aging physically, but Donald doesn't. Who gets stuck with all the bad luck? No one -- but Donald Duck! (Yeah!)

[LP]

Jul 1, 2021 22:02:02 GMT That Duckfan said:

Of course, if we're to follow stories like The Victory Garden, Donald and the nephews already lived together during World War II -- but references like that are fairly easily ignored.

Interesting. I'm not aware of any references to WWII in The Victory Garden. Please explain.

Mentally, they still develop -- as is plainly evident in many of the comics. Those kids have wisdom beyond their years! The adults do age during this time, but in the fifteen years we see them, this doesn't greatly affect their appearance.*

My fan explanation is that by c. 1963-64, Gyro was able to invent something that blocked the Fountain's process, allowing the nephews to finally graduate school and go to college.

But if HDL still mentally develop, why wouldn't they be able to graduate until after they physically continue the aging process? And if they are really adults in children's bodies during "the later years", it would be a bit odd if they were to fall in love with someone who is a *real* child. (Although, I'm not sure if there actually are any stories where HDL fall in love during that era.)

Also, if the other adults still age, Grandma Duck would be something like 110+ years by the end. She didn't drink from the fountain, did she? I don't know during what years Barks used April, May, and June, but I don't think they drank either, so that could potentially pose a problem for the theory too.

[juicymcduck]

Jul 2, 2021 10:48:41 GMT LP said:

Jul 1, 2021 22:02:02 GMT That Duckfan said:

Of course, if we're to follow stories like The Victory Garden, Donald and the nephews already lived together during World War II -- but references like that are fairly easily ignored.

Interesting. I'm not aware of any references to WWII in The Victory Garden. Please explain.

The mere fact that they're making a victory garden is the reference in itself, since that term refers to a practice that took place during the war.

[LP]

Jul 2, 2021 11:52:37 GMT juicymcduck said:

The mere fact that they're making a victory garden is the reference in itself, since that term refers to a practice that took place during the war.

Wow! I've never heard of that before! It appears I'm more ignorant about WWII than I thought.