Aren't Junior Woodchucks kinda hypocrites?

[Hector]

I first realized this when i read Don Rosa's ''Guardians of the lost library''.
On the one hand, at some point, one of Donald's nephews boasts about
how one of their club's ideals is the transmission of knowledge. On the
other hand, a few panels later, one of the club's leaders states to
Scrooge that Junior Woodchuck book is only accessible to the club's
members and there is also a strict age limit when it comes to accepting
new members.
Ok, i know Scrooge's motives were impure, but, if an adult with a genuine
interest in knowledge (ex. Gyro) wanted to get that book, he'd never
have the chance to, just because he's too old to enter the club. Tough
luck, Gyro and Ludwig! But Junior Woodchucks fight for people's right
for knowledge!
Actually, this story is what made me dislike their club.

[gadgetphile]

I wouldn't bother too much. In fact, I'm 99% sure I've once seen a non Junior Woodchuck read the book. (Think it was Donald. Can't remember.)

[RobbK1]

Sept 5, 2017 4:10:46 GMT Hector said:

I first realized this when i read Don Rosa's ''Guardians of the lost library''.
On the one hand, at some point, one of Donald's nephews boasts about
how one of their club's ideals is the transmission of knowledge. On the
other hand, a few panels later, one of the club's leaders states to
Scrooge that Junior Woodchuck book is only accessible to the club's
members and there is also a strict age limit when it comes to accepting
new members.
Ok, i know Scrooge's motives were impure, but, if an adult with a genuine
interest in knowledge (ex. Gyro) wanted to get that book, he'd never
have the chance to, just because he's too old to enter the club. Tough
luck, Gyro and Ludwig! But Junior Woodchucks fight for people's right
for knowledge!
Actually, this story is what made me dislike their club.

Carl Barks invented The Junior Woodchucks to make fun of The Boy Scouts, and the adults who remain scouts continuing to earn new medals in their adulthood.  If they seem hypocritical, that's no surprise, based on Barks' original purpose for them in his stories.  I'm sure he never dreamed that readers would take them seriously.

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

RobbK is right. Of course, the choice of Dell to exploit massively the JW's diluted that satyrical/mocking flavor, till making it disappear. So, yes, the answer to the question is yes, the WD's are kinda hypocrites, and that's one of the interesting things about them. Laugh at them. (If the dead animal on their head was not enough reason to laugh at them and consider them kinda hypocrites! )

I would like to mention that Freddy Milton not only understood that original satyrical tone, but was also able to update it a bit to the anti-war spirit of the 70's. I am referring to the first Milton-Jippes's story, Caravan-calamiteiten (written only by Milton in this case), where the anti-militaristic tone is pretty clear. This anti-militaristic tone is represented by a Donald in great form as both an annoying vendicative not-so-grown duck and as a wise father...once again, contradictory character are good characters! Yep, that's definitely a good story from many points of view, which should deserve more fame!

I would like to know if there are other similar stories, i.e. where the militaristic spirit of the WD's is explicitly mocked. That sounds like something that Kari Korhonen would do, for instance!  

[Minotaur]

I'm not quite sure whether the concept of JW meant to be satyrical, I would be glad if it is! Every time when HDL insist "JW guidebook is always right!" I feel VERY uncomfortable. I can't describe my feelings. I just hate that sentence. It only makes sense if the innocent belief of HDL reflects the boyish side of their character.

[RobbK1]

Sept 5, 2017 12:12:31 GMT Minotaur said:

I'm not quite sure whether the concept of JW meant to be satyrical, I would be glad if it is! Every time when HDL insist "JW guidebook is always right!" I feel VERY uncomfortable. I can't describe my feelings. I just hate that sentence. It only makes sense if the innocent belief of HDL reflects the boyish side of their character.

Carl Barks, himself, told me that he was making fun of the "militaristic aspects of scouting" when inventing and using The Junior Woodchucks.  The Junior Woodchucks' Guidebook is a later invention, and shares some of the mockery of The Woodchucks' existence (how can such a little book hold ALL the knowledge of Mankind?), but, it also represents Huey's, Dewey's and Louie's dedication to learning and, thus, being good citizens.  So, it could be looked at in two ways.

[gottfredson]

Sept 5, 2017 6:34:54 GMT RobbK1 said:

Sept 5, 2017 4:10:46 GMT Hector said:

I first realized this when i read Don Rosa's ''Guardians of the lost library''.
On the one hand, at some point, one of Donald's nephews boasts about
how one of their club's ideals is the transmission of knowledge. On the
other hand, a few panels later, one of the club's leaders states to
Scrooge that Junior Woodchuck book is only accessible to the club's
members and there is also a strict age limit when it comes to accepting
new members.
Ok, i know Scrooge's motives were impure, but, if an adult with a genuine
interest in knowledge (ex. Gyro) wanted to get that book, he'd never
have the chance to, just because he's too old to enter the club. Tough
luck, Gyro and Ludwig! But Junior Woodchucks fight for people's right
for knowledge!
Actually, this story is what made me dislike their club.

Carl Barks invented The Junior Woodchucks to make fun of The Boy Scouts, and the adults who remain scouts continuing to earn new medals in their adulthood.  If they seem hypocritical, that's no surprise, based on Barks' original purpose for them in his stories.  I'm sure he never dreamed that readers would take them seriously.

That is very disappointing to hear as an Eagle Scout. I prefer Will Rogers' viewpoint:

“The only problem with Boy Scouts is, there aren't enough of them.” 

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Seriously, "very disappointing"? Barks just made fun of the Boy Scouts, did not want them to disappear or something. Folks, chill out. When someone (especially someone of talent) makes fun of you, well, that's good for you. Don't they teach you scouts to laugh at yourself there in the woods or wherever you go?

[gottfredson]

Sept 6, 2017 6:52:43 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Seriously, "very disappointing"? Barks just made fun of the Boy Scouts, did not want them to disappear or something. Folks, chill out. When someone (especially someone of talent) makes fun of you, well, that's good for you. Don't they teach you scouts to laugh at yourself there in the woods or wherever you go?

You are the one who escalated the response. I didn't call for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character. I merely said that I found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. You are the one who decided to be upset that I dared to disagree with Banks. Satire is not always a good thing. That is a naive belief. 

Indeed, they did. We have a rich history of skits, songs and jokes. But self-parody is always preferable. 

[RobbK1]

Sept 6, 2017 19:17:15 GMT gottfredson said:

Sept 6, 2017 6:52:43 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Seriously, "very disappointing"? Barks just made fun of the Boy Scouts, did not want them to disappear or something. Folks, chill out. When someone (especially someone of talent) makes fun of you, well, that's good for you. Don't they teach you scouts to laugh at yourself there in the woods or wherever you go?

You are the one who escalated the response. I didn't call for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character. I merely said that I found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. You are the one who decided to be upset that I dared to disagree with Banks. Satire is not always a good thing. That is a naive belief. 

Indeed, they did. We have a rich history of skits, songs and jokes. But self-parody is always preferable. 

Barks WASN'T making fun of ALL Boy scouts.  He was making fun of the hypocritical ones, who pretended they were great "woodsmen" because they had so many medals and merit badges for learning woodcrafts and doing so-called daring and "dangerous" exercises as boys in controlled situations, and bragging about them.  His work doesn't deserve to be banned for putting down that World-wide organisation.

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Sept 6, 2017 19:17:15 GMT gottfredson said:

Sept 6, 2017 6:52:43 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Seriously, "very disappointing"? Barks just made fun of the Boy Scouts, did not want them to disappear or something. Folks, chill out. When someone (especially someone of talent) makes fun of you, well, that's good for you. Don't they teach you scouts to laugh at yourself there in the woods or wherever you go?

You are the one who escalated the response. I didn't call for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character. I merely said that I found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. You are the one who decided to be upset that I dared to disagree with Banks. Satire is not always a good thing. That is a naive belief. 

I did not say that you call "for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character". My message is right up here, in quote: read it. Moreover, I did not say that satire is always good, one more thing that you can check by reading my post. 

I cannot believe that I am doing this, but let me explain the content of the communication, for conscience sake just in case you are a kid (which at this point I hope for you that you are): as you state, you merely said that you found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. Absolutely right. What I said, is that you should not find disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. By finding it disappointing you prove not to be able to laugh at yourself, proving exactly Barks' point in depicting Boy Scouts as people who take themselves too seriously. Yep, satire is a trap, and you just felt into it.

Get it, Eagle?
 

[dismaldowns]

Sept 6, 2017 19:17:15 GMT gottfredson said:

Sept 6, 2017 6:52:43 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Seriously, "very disappointing"? Barks just made fun of the Boy Scouts, did not want them to disappear or something. Folks, chill out. When someone (especially someone of talent) makes fun of you, well, that's good for you. Don't they teach you scouts to laugh at yourself there in the woods or wherever you go?

You are the one who escalated the response. I didn't call for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character. I merely said that I found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. You are the one who decided to be upset that I dared to disagree with Banks. Satire is not always a good thing. That is a naive belief. 

Indeed, they did. We have a rich history of skits, songs and jokes. But self-parody is always preferable. 

That is my first post and I'm not as knowledgeable as you guys. I grew up reading Disney comics and now I am rediscovering it. Also finding out about a lot of things I never suspected. I am from Brazil and Duck comics while still popular enough (specially compared to the US) is not nearly as popular as 20/30 years ago.

With that said, as far as I know, Barks said he wanted to be a scout when he was a kid but he never had the chance so the Junior Woodchucks are kind of his homage to this childhood dream. Yes, it's satirical and tongue and cheek but I think it's very affectional as well. Everything he portrays has a spin on it, doesn't it? The same goes for every character and institution in these stories. The pompous leaders tend to bear the more negative qualities and the kids are usually portrayed as heroic and more upstanding.

I hope that makes you feel better about the topic.

[RobbK1]

Sept 22, 2017 1:28:18 GMT dismaldowns said:

Sept 6, 2017 19:17:15 GMT gottfredson said:

You are the one who escalated the response. I didn't call for banning his work, censorship or cast aspersions upon his character. I merely said that I found it very disappointing that he decided to parody the Boy Scouts. You are the one who decided to be upset that I dared to disagree with Banks. Satire is not always a good thing. That is a naive belief. 

Indeed, they did. We have a rich history of skits, songs and jokes. But self-parody is always preferable. 

That is my first post and I'm not as knowledgeable as you guys. I grew up reading Disney comics and now I am rediscovering it. Also finding out about a lot of things I never suspected. I am from Brazil and Duck comics while still popular enough (specially compared to the US) is not nearly as popular as 20/30 years ago.

With that said, as far as I know, Barks said he wanted to be a scout when he was a kid but he never had the chance, so the Junior Woodchucks are kind of his homage to this childhood dream. Yes, it's satirical and tongue and cheek but I think it's very affectional as well. Everything he portrays has a spin on it, doesn't it? The same goes for every character and institution in these stories. The pompous leaders tend to bear the more negative qualities and the kids are usually portrayed as heroic and more upstanding.

I hope that makes you feel better about the topic.

Ha! Carl Barks would have liked even to have enough other kids around to even form a Boy Scout troop!  His one room schoolhouse, covering all elementary grades 1 through 8, only had a handful.  He and his brother had to play alone, much of the time, on their farm, which was several miles from the next ranches in each direction.

[dismaldowns]

Sept 22, 2017 7:25:26 GMT RobbK1 said:

Sept 22, 2017 1:28:18 GMT dismaldowns said:

That is my first post and I'm not as knowledgeable as you guys. I grew up reading Disney comics and now I am rediscovering it. Also finding out about a lot of things I never suspected. I am from Brazil and Duck comics while still popular enough (specially compared to the US) is not nearly as popular as 20/30 years ago.

With that said, as far as I know, Barks said he wanted to be a scout when he was a kid but he never had the chance, so the Junior Woodchucks are kind of his homage to this childhood dream. Yes, it's satirical and tongue and cheek but I think it's very affectional as well. Everything he portrays has a spin on it, doesn't it? The same goes for every character and institution in these stories. The pompous leaders tend to bear the more negative qualities and the kids are usually portrayed as heroic and more upstanding.

I hope that makes you feel better about the topic.

Ha! Carl Barks would have liked even to have enough other kids around to even form a Boy Scout troop!  His one room schoolhouse, covering all elementary grades 1 through 8, only had a handful.  He and his brother had to play alone, much of the time, on their farm, which was several miles from the next ranches in each direction.

Yes, that was the reason he gave in the interview excerpt I saw. I don't think it contradicts what I said. He never had the chance and apparently had a solitary childhood.

[Hyaroo]

Yeah... in my experience, the Junior Woodchucks are huge hypocrites, as well as annoyingly arrogant elitists. I always kinda thought that was part of the point. (Let's just say I always fully sympathised with Donald when he got fed up with the JWs.)