Certainly I think Scarpa was the creator that ever got the closest to matching the tone and feel from the old Floyd Gottfredson comics.
Hmmm… Much as I like Scarpa, I wouldn't say he's uncontested. Casty, you know. Although maybe you wouldn't count him for his stories being nearer to the feel of the later, Bill-Walsh-scriped comics as opposed to the early Outwits the Phantom Blot-style stuff?
Hmmm… Much as I like Scarpa, I wouldn't say he's uncontested. Casty, you know. Although maybe you wouldn't count him for his stories being nearer to the feel of the later, Bill-Walsh-scriped comics as opposed to the early Outwits the Phantom Blot-style stuff?
Point well made. I suppose Scarpa's comics are closer to the Bill Walsh-scripted strips than the earlier Gottfredson-scripted ones, though I'll admit that I don't always remember which comics were written by Walsh and which were written by Gottfredson, so they do occasionally merge together for me.... unforgiveable sin, I know. But Scarpa's comics always felt to me the most like they were a continuation of the comic strip in its more adventurous years, in a way that no other Mickey Mouse comics ever did.
Or at least none that I ever read; I'm willing to accept that there may have been other creators that did an even better job and I just never knew about them because I tended to focus more on the Duck comics than the Mouse ones.
I think that Scarpa was a much better fit for The Mouse Universe than for The Ducks, more because he drew them much better than he drew The Ducks. He drew the latter in a distorted manner. I think Scarpa's Duck stories are good. I just don't like his art style in his Duck stories.
Well, to each their own. I never minded Scarpa's art in the Duck stories, but his stories always felt a little off to me; like they were all just a little too long and just dragged too much, which led to a story with some neat ideas but bad pacing and just a vaguely dull feel to them. (I usually liked the Scarpa Duck stories better when he wasn't the writer but just the artist.) His Mouse stories always seemed better-structured and -paced; at least they never bored me in the same way.
Hmmm… Much as I like Scarpa, I wouldn't say he's uncontested. Casty, you know. Although maybe you wouldn't count him for his stories being nearer to the feel of the later, Bill-Walsh-scriped comics as opposed to the early Outwits the Phantom Blot-style stuff?
Point well made. I suppose Scarpa's comics are closer to the Bill Walsh-scripted strips than the earlier Gottfredson-scripted ones, though I'll admit that I don't always remember which comics were written by Walsh and which were written by Gottfredson, so they do occasionally merge together for me.... unforgiveable sin, I know. But Scarpa's comics always felt to me the most like they were a continuation of the comic strip in its more adventurous years, in a way that no other Mickey Mouse comics ever did.
Or at least none that I ever read; I'm willing to accept that there may have been other creators that did an even better job and I just never knew about them because I tended to focus more on the Duck comics than the Mouse ones.
I think that Scarpa was a much better fit for The Mouse Universe than for The Ducks, more because he drew them much better than he drew The Ducks. He drew the latter in a distorted manner. I think Scarpa's Duck stories are good. I just don't like his art style in his Duck stories.
Well, to each their own. I never minded Scarpa's art in the Duck stories, but his stories always felt a little off to me; like they were all just a little too long and just dragged too much, which led to a story with some neat ideas but bad pacing and just a vaguely dull feel to them. (I usually liked the Scarpa Duck stories better when he wasn't the writer but just the artist.) His Mouse stories always seemed better-structured and -paced; at least they never bored me in the same way.
We're all spoiled by Barks' great story writing, and extremely efficient pacing. We mortal "Duck writers" had to use 12 and 13 pages to structure nice "domestic" stories that even approach those of Carl Barks. But, I do agree with you that Scarpa's story pacing was somewhat weaker in his "Duck stories" than his "Mouse stories".
Post by Monkey_Feyerabend on Jun 19, 2018 22:50:47 GMT
I am well known for not being a fan of Italian Disney comics in general. Yet, I am also honest enough to admit that they can be great comics. Surely they are the BEST Disney comics, now more than in the past, deserving the greatest diffusion possible. So I find caballero's rant inappropriate at least. (Skipping on the unpolite calling on people's jobs...come on, we can be better than this in here.) By the way, there is no sign that the presence of Italian artists in this series will obscure other Disney comics schools...so what is the problem?
I wish the greatest luck to this series, for the pleasure of the few but committed and intelligent fans of Disney comics in North America, as the ones on this forum. It would be nice if the series would live long enough to bring to North America not only the old Italian masters, as it is doing, but also the modern Disney Masters not yet much seen over there (and who are in my opinion better than the old ones), like
Mottura
Celoni
Ziche
and so on! Not to mention the modern great writers, who are sooooooo much better than the old ones: the few things by Casty and Artibani published so far by IDW are only the tip of the iceberg!
I've now read this entire thread, and there's a few things I'd like to add. I read countless issues of Norwegian "Donald Pocket", during the nineties when I was a kid. I guess at least half of the stories in those books came from the Italian "Topolino". I read those books again and again, but they never featured older stories. The classics by Scarpa, Bottaro, Carpi, and Martina were all printed in Donald Pocket volumes released long before my time. And now there's this Casty, who I'd also like to read. Those were published monthly. "Donald Duck & Co", a magazine, meanwhile, was published weekly. I have a lot of fond memories from those too, but the ones I remember from the magazine (apart from Barks and Rosa) are not deemed good stories (at least not on Inducks) today. Too bad for me. I've got the two Rota-volumes of the Norwegian Hall of Fame already, but there's many more stories I'd like from him. The issues of DD&Co that featured him are long since read to shreds. Van Horn has never really appealed to me. So, to summarize: I'd like classic Italian stories.
I've now read this entire thread, and there's a few things I'd like to add. I read countless issues of Norwegian "Donald Pocket", during the nineties when I was a kid. I guess at least half of the stories in those books came from the Italian "Topolino". I read those books again and again, but they never featured older stories. The classics by Scarpa, Bottaro, Carpi, and Martina were all printed in Donald Pocket volumes released long before my time. And now there's this Casty, who I'd also like to read. Those were published monthly. "Donald Duck & Co", a magazine, meanwhile, was published weekly. I have a lot of fond memories from those too, but the ones I remember from the magazine (apart from Barks and Rosa) are not deemed good stories (at least not on Inducks) today. Too bad for me. I've got the two Rota-volumes of the Norwegian Hall of Fame already, but there's many more stories I'd like from him. The issues of DD&Co that featured him are long since read to shreds. Van Horn has never really appealed to me. So, to summarize: I'd like classic Italian stories.
...and you'd like more Rota, right?, who doesn't count as classic Italian. I'd definitely like more Rota in English. Nightmare Ship, and Little Helper Lost, and The Incredible Shrinking Duck, and Molepeople, and Three Minus Two Is One, and Wonderwool, and Double or Nothing, and and....
My opinion is that while Murry’s Mickey serials are nice, I’d sooner see more Scarpa Mickey Mouse volumes, or even a Casty book or two. Paul Murry has done some unique stories like the earliest Super Goof stories and The Phantom Blot series that might make a nice break between the serials, too.
Crossing my fingers that *maybe* the editors of this series will consider doing a Casty volume.
I think right now surviving the COVID-19 pandemic is going to take precedence over which volume is next. There won't be ANY volumes if the market collapses.
Crossing my fingers that *maybe* the editors of this series will consider doing a Casty volume.
I think right now surviving the COVID-19 pandemic is going to take precedence over which volume is next. There won't be ANY volumes if the market collapses.
If the market collapses, and the Disney Masters series gets cancelled before a William Van Horn volume is published, I will be INCENSED. 3 Paul Murry volumes and and 8 volumes containing Disney Italy comics (3 rows per page Disney comics produced for the Italian market) before a single WvH volume just because the editor of the series loves Murry and Italian Disney comics? Come on!
As we produced the comprehensive works of Gottfredson, Barks, and Rosa at Fantagraphics, Romano Scarpa and Paul Murry were the two creators we got the most requests to anthologize next. For various reasons, we couldn't publish a complete library of either creator, so it made sense to put some of the most important bodies of their work into a "best-of" series.
Meanwhile, Disney was actively interested in having us do collected books featuring several of the major Italian talents (Bottaro, Carpi, Cavazzano). This coalesced into a series combining all of these goals, into which the Fantagraphics team could slowly slot other popular and important creators as well.
Meanwhile again—at the time the Masters started, I had Van Horn and Casty-focused projects in the works at IDW, so they couldn't be part of the Masters at least at first.
I'm glad to say that NOW we have a Van Horn Masters book in production (presently scheduled as Vol 18), with Casty to follow. We've also proposed our first Rota volume, likely for next year.
As the series has progressed, Scarpa tends to sell best, with Murry the most talked-about and best-reviewed. This shows that readers absolutely respond to what they were already requesting for years—so making Scarpa and Murry "tentpoles" of the line has borne fruit.
I'm not personally, by the way, the biggest Murry fan around. But I do want to supply what our English-speaking audience clearly wants, and I'm glad to be preserving the Murry serials in English for posterity. (It's also great to be preserving Kinney's and Hubbard's team-ups, most of which only ever appeared in their native tongue in Australia.)
As we produced the comprehensive works of Gottfredson, Barks, and Rosa at Fantagraphics, Romano Scarpa and Paul Murry were the two creators we got the most requests to anthologize next. For various reasons, we couldn't publish a complete library of either creator, so it made sense to put some of the most important bodies of their work into a "best-of" series.
Meanwhile, Disney was actively interested in having us do collected books featuring several of the major Italian talents (Bottaro, Carpi, Cavazzano). This coalesced into a series combining all of these goals, into which the Fantagraphics team could slowly slot other popular and important creators as well.
Meanwhile again—at the time the Masters started, I had Van Horn and Casty-focused projects in the works at IDW, so they couldn't be part of the Masters at least at first.
I think that most of us here deduced these things, and tried to explain them when someone was criticising (more than twenty-three times) the content of the series. You don't even need to be a professional in the sector to realise that too many factors play a role when putting something out in the book market, especially when it comes to this particular kind of comics. You simply cannot go out on with a 'let us give the buyers the best of the best, we take no prisoners!' attitude. Not even within the scope of such a peculiar publisher as Fantagraphics. In fact, the company was created in the 70's with such an ideal attitude in mind, but it would not exists nowadays without some more 'business' common sense. (All this assuming that Van Horn and Rota are actually part of 'the best of the best' according to everyone, something that I personally sooooo much doubt...)
This mantric overreaction shown by Caballero in this thread to the announced titles of the series, well, I want to assume that it comes from a good place. But it is just misplaced because it overlooks the editorial context. Disney Masters is not an exposition in a museum. If Ramapith was organising an art retrospective on the Disney masters omitting Rota and Van Horn, I would be the first to say "hey, I think there is a little problem here...". But this is not a retrospective, or a book essay. This is a series of relatively expensive editions of outdatednichecomics to be sold in the real world. A world that barely cares anymore who Donald Duck is or ever was, left alone asking to see that duck drawn by Scarpa or Van Horn.
I honestly cannot believe that the series managed to put out a hardcover book of 50 year old Bottaro's stories (which according to me read 'old' already 40 years ago) for the English-speaking comic book market without having the (metaphorical) boat sink! Repeat this in your mind: Bottaro. Hardcover. North America. 2018. As a comparison, in my knowledge the Italian publishers have never put out an anthology - not even a softcover cheap one, as the are used to do- with the name 'Bottaro' on it*. It just does not sell. So, even if you don't appreciate those stories - in a way, especially if you don't appreciate those stories - you should appreciate the job done with the series.
I also would like to ask caballero why he need so much a Van Horn anthology. He kinda sounds to me like someone who already holds all stories drawn by Van Horn. Or at least, all those stories that could fall into the first ten Disney Master volumes potentially devoted to the author. I could understand me reciting a mantra for that book...but why you, man?
I think we can all just chill on this issue.
* Before someone tries to correct me: yes, some numbers of I Maestri Disney in the 90's. Yes, I know, I was there. But that was half a life ago, and they were not actual anthologies...
As we produced the comprehensive works of Gottfredson, Barks, and Rosa at Fantagraphics, Romano Scarpa and Paul Murry were the two creators we got the most requests to anthologize next. For various reasons, we couldn't publish a complete library of either creator, so it made sense to put some of the most important bodies of their work into a "best-of" series.
Meanwhile, Disney was actively interested in having us do collected books featuring several of the major Italian talents (Bottaro, Carpi, Cavazzano). This coalesced into a series combining all of these goals, into which the Fantagraphics team could slowly slot other popular and important creators as well.
Meanwhile again—at the time the Masters started, I had Van Horn and Casty-focused projects in the works at IDW, so they couldn't be part of the Masters at least at first.
I think that most of us here deduced these things, and tried to explain them when someone was criticising (more than twenty-three times) the content of the series. You don't even need to be a professional in the sector to realise that too many factors play a role when putting something out in the book market, especially when it comes to this particular kind of comics. You simply cannot go out on with a 'let us give the buyers the best of the best, we take no prisoners!' attitude. Not even within the scope of such a peculiar publisher as Fantagraphics. In fact, the company was created in the 70's with such an ideal attitude in mind, but it would not exists nowadays without some more 'business' common sense. (All this assuming that Van Horn and Rota are actually part of 'the best of the best' according to everyone, something that I personally sooooo much doubt...)
This mantric overreaction shown by Caballero in this thread to the announced titles of the series, well, I want to assume that it comes from a good place. But it is just misplaced because it overlooks the editorial context. Disney Masters is not an exposition in a museum. If Ramapith was organising an art retrospective on the Disney masters omitting Rota and Van Horn, I would be the first to say "hey, I think there is a little problem here...". But this is not a retrospective, or a book essay. This is a series of relatively expensive editions of outdatednichecomics to be sold in the real world. A world that barely cares anymore who Donald Duck is or ever was, left alone asking to see that duck drawn by Scarpa or Van Horn.
I honestly cannot believe that the series managed to put out a hardcover book of 50 year old Bottaro's stories (which according to me read 'old' already 40 years ago) for the English-speaking comic book market without having the (metaphorical) boat sink! Repeat this in your mind: Bottaro. Hardcover. North America. 2018. As a comparison, in my knowledge the Italian publishers have never put out an anthology - not even a softcover cheap one, as the are used to do- with the name 'Bottaro' on it*. It just does not sell. So, even if you don't appreciate those stories - in a way, especially if you don't appreciate those stories - you should appreciate the job done with the series.
I also would like to ask caballero why he need so much a Van Horn anthology. He kinda sounds to me like someone who already holds all stories drawn by Van Horn. Or at least, all those stories that could fall into the first ten Disney Master volumes potentially devoted to the author. I could understand me reciting a mantra for that book...but why you, man?
I think we can all just chill on this issue.
* Before someone tries to correct me: yes, some numbers of I Maestri Disney in the 90's. Yes, I know, I was there. But that was half a life ago, and they were not actual anthologies...
Clearly, he wants those stories in a hard-bound book, to preserve them in good condition, and read them in a few books, instead of having to pick up a new book for every different story. Many of us Barks fans had all his stories in a combination of original issues and re-prints, plus special later issues with previously unpublished stories all in "floppy" books. But, we wanted them in hardbound colour volumes in the same series. So, we bought the hard-bound collections, despite having possession of all the stories. One could say to my last statement, "Well, at least he shouldn't complain about them coming "later" IF they are officially announced as scheduled for later." But, even THAT logic doesn't really make Caballero's stand on this unreasonable, because we all know that production of such market niche products depends highly on sales of previous issues, and that series published by such small companies often stop a series in mid-stream, if sales are too low to keep it profitable. So, a fan of a given series will want his issues to be as early on the schedule as possible. It's the same with me and The US Carl Barks colour series. We were getting 2 volumes per year, 2020 seems to have only one. As it is, I don't know if I'll even LIVE to possess the complete series, let alone enjoy it for a few years.
I'm glad to say that NOW we have a Van Horn Masters book in production (presently scheduled as Vol 18), with Casty to follow. We've also proposed our first Rota volume, likely for next year.
Really nice to hear there will be a Casty volume! Will the selected stories be all new to the US, I wonder (since most of the already-published Casty stories have been collected in either hardcover or TPB format)?
sweet! So excited to hear that we’ll be getting Van Horn and Casty volumes coming.
I’m crossing my fingers that maybe some of the Donald Orange Juice comics Van Horn produced can be included as extras. Regardless I’m thankful there will be a volume for him
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2020 2:56:54 GMT by twdisneyman