Which characters are on Santa's naughty list?

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Dec 28, 2017 23:37:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Are you suggesting that ADULTS believe that their gifts are delivered by Saint Nikolas (who died about 352 A.D.)  And they believe that the ghost of that man delivers millions of gifts on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, or takes a steamship from Spain to Amsterdam, and then rides his horse atop rooftops carrying all those gifts in one bag,with only one helper?  And that they believe they won't get gifts from him if they've behaved badly the past year???

(…)

Scrooge warns Huey, Dewey, and Louie against bad behaviour by reminding them of the threat of losing their annual gifts if they behave badly, because they are little children, who still believe in Santa Claus/Sinterklaas.   He is not warning Donald or Daisy that they will lose their gifts.  THEY both know that the gifts come from LIVING ADULTS, buying them in stores, or making them, themselves.

Well, Christianity still has nothing to do with it, but it is a pretty well-established fact in Disney comics (including Barks; remember the "steamshovel story") that Santa Claus is real in some capacity (although he seems removed from the historical Saint Nicholas*) and has crossed paths with the ducks on numerous occasion. Hell, a recent story even had Scrooge doing business with Santa. 

Of course, there's also plenty of instances, also in Barks, of characters buying/making presents themselves — it seems to me like the Disney comics Santa Claus comes to only some people (presumably mostly those who wouldn't have gotten gifts, or not a lot, on their own, and/or those whose letters reach him personally), and relies on human goodness to fulfill a mission he cannot hope to carry out all on his own. 

Even in the Barks story, however, Santa Claus is a magic user of the same sort as Witch Hazel or Yen Sid, and this neatly explains how he has lived so long and how he travels in the air.

* For the record, Saint Nicholas/Sinterklaas as conceived of in Dutch folklore, Black Peter sidekick and all, has also appeared as a genuine character in Disney comics, and one wholly unrelated to Santa Claus at that. See Inducks.

[RobbK1]

Dec 28, 2017 23:55:17 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Dec 28, 2017 23:37:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Are you suggesting that ADULTS believe that their gifts are delivered by Saint Nikolas (who died about 352 A.D.)  And they believe that the ghost of that man delivers millions of gifts on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, or takes a steamship from Spain to Amsterdam, and then rides his horse atop rooftops carrying all those gifts in one bag,with only one helper?  And that they believe they won't get gifts from him if they've behaved badly the past year???

(…)

Scrooge warns Huey, Dewey, and Louie against bad behaviour by reminding them of the threat of losing their annual gifts if they behave badly, because they are little children, who still believe in Santa Claus/Sinterklaas.   He is not warning Donald or Daisy that they will lose their gifts.  THEY both know that the gifts come from LIVING ADULTS, buying them in stores, or making them, themselves.

Well, Christianity still has nothing to do with it, but it is a pretty well-established fact in Disney comics (including Barks; remember the "steamshovel story") that Santa Claus is real in some capacity (although he seems removed from the historical Saint Nicholas*) and has crossed paths with the ducks on numerous occasion. Hell, a recent story even had Scrooge doing business with Santa. 

Of course, there's also plenty of instances, also in Barks, of characters buying/making presents themselves — it seems to me like the Disney comics Santa Claus comes to only some people (presumably mostly those who wouldn't have gotten gifts, or not a lot, on their own, and/or those whose letters reach him personally), and relies on human goodness to fulfill a mission he cannot hope to carry out all on his own. 

Even in the Barks story, however, Santa Claus is a magic user of the same sort as Witch Hazel or Yen Sid, and this neatly explains how he has lived so long and how he travels in the air.

* For the record, Saint Nicholas/Sinterklaas as conceived of in Dutch folklore, Black Peter sidekick and all, has also appeared as a genuine character in Disney comics, and one wholly unrelated to Santa Claus at that. See Inducks.I

I assume that this comment was included for other non-Dutch readers of this thread, as I have been working for Oberon/Geilustreerde Pers/VNU/Sanoma Uitgevers since 1985, and am,myself, of Dutch heritage, and have been reading Donald Duck Weekblad since it began in 1952.

[deb]

Dec 28, 2017 23:37:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Dec 28, 2017 22:36:24 GMT Hector said:

Ok, let me try again. What does 'naughty list' mean? If it only includes those
whose morals do not include solidarity and sympathy, who only care for their
own prosperity and will do anything it takes to get there, then the naughty
list includes...
-Beagle Boys (Barks/Rosa)
-Glomgold
-Scrooge (Martina)
-Gladstone (Barkses early version, pre 'luckiest duck in the world' concept)

Now, if by 'naughty', we mean someone who misbehaves one way or another,
the list extends to everybody but Gyro and Grandma Duck, since everybody
else has defied at least some generally acceptable rules of honesty from
time to time.

Are you suggesting that ADULTS believe that their gifts are delivered by Saint Nikolas (who died about 352 A.D.)  And they believe that the ghost of that man delivers millions of gifts on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, or takes a steamship from Spain to Amsterdam, and then rides his horse atop rooftops carrying all those gifts in one bag,with only one helper?  And that they believe they won't get gifts from him if they've behaved badly the past year???

The withholding of gifts and threat of related punishment is totally directed at children (and very young ones, at that), as a deterrent to help keep them from behaving badly.  Clearly, it would be no deterrent from keeping an adult from mischief or any level of sinning.  Do you expect us to believe that any adults believ the ghost of a priest brings THEM gifts?  And they don't themselves buy or make gifts for adult friends and loved ones because they KNOW that that ghost or elf will bring gifts for all adults???  That is utterly ridiculous. 

Scrooge warns Huey, Dewey, and Louie against bad behaviour by reminding them of the threat of losing their annual gifts if they behave badly, because they are little children, who still believe in Santa Claus/Sinterklaas.   He is not warning Donald or Daisy that they will lose their gifts.  THEY both know that the gifts come from LIVING ADULTS, buying them in stores, or making them, themselves.

So, please, let's keep detailed discussions about how The Christian Religion deals with sinful behaviour off this forum.  This thread is about Scrooge and other adult Disney characters referring to Santa Claus' activities (as he, as a cartoon character) behaves in Disney stories.  THAT has nothing to do with Christian religious teaching, rules, rituals and interpretation of same.

Traditionally, Disney comics are written with children in mind, so it isn't unusual for Donald, Mickey or Uncle Scrooge to write letters to Santa, much less be worried about not getting a gift from him. To adults, yes it may seem silly, but to kids it makes for an entertaining story.

[RobbK1]

Dec 29, 2017 2:42:27 GMT deb said:

Dec 28, 2017 23:37:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Are you suggesting that ADULTS believe that their gifts are delivered by Saint Nikolas (who died about 352 A.D.)  And they believe that the ghost of that man delivers millions of gifts on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, or takes a steamship from Spain to Amsterdam, and then rides his horse atop rooftops carrying all those gifts in one bag,with only one helper?  And that they believe they won't get gifts from him if they've behaved badly the past year???

The withholding of gifts and threat of related punishment is totally directed at children (and very young ones, at that), as a deterrent to help keep them from behaving badly.  Clearly, it would be no deterrent from keeping an adult from mischief or any level of sinning.  Do you expect us to believe that any adults believ the ghost of a priest brings THEM gifts?  And they don't themselves buy or make gifts for adult friends and loved ones because they KNOW that that ghost or elf will bring gifts for all adults???  That is utterly ridiculous. 

Scrooge warns Huey, Dewey, and Louie against bad behaviour by reminding them of the threat of losing their annual gifts if they behave badly, because they are little children, who still believe in Santa Claus/Sinterklaas.   He is not warning Donald or Daisy that they will lose their gifts.  THEY both know that the gifts come from LIVING ADULTS, buying them in stores, or making them, themselves.

So, please, let's keep detailed discussions about how The Christian Religion deals with sinful behaviour off this forum.  This thread is about Scrooge and other adult Disney characters referring to Santa Claus' activities (as he, as a cartoon character) behaves in Disney stories.  THAT has nothing to do with Christian religious teaching, rules, rituals and interpretation of same.

Traditionally, Disney comics are written with children in mind, so it isn't unusual for Donald, Mickey or Uncle Scrooge to write letters to Santa, much less be worried about not getting a gift from him. To adults, yes it may seem silly, but to kids it makes for an entertaining story.

I agree.  Which is why I mentioned that it is inappropriate to discuss the details of Christian tenets related to "sinning" on this thread, because no Disney media product would mention anything religious.  Santa Claus and gift-giving in Disney comics and animation is solely related only to the secular custom of the "commercial version of Christmas" celebrated in many countries as a secular holiday used to be nice to our children once a year.  It's the same as the American and Canadian version of Chanukkah, which many Jews also now mainly celebrate a secular holiday, only to make sure their children don't feel slighted that all the "Christian" children get tonnes of gifts in December, and they get none.  Chanukkah is one of the most minor Jewish holidays, as compared with Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Passover, Succot, and even Purim.  It's just about the only Jewish holiday most Gentiles have heard of, only because of its commercial, secular version, and the holiday enjoyed most and participated in most by secular, non-religious Jews. 

So, Whatever, and all of us shouldn't be getting into details of any religion, or even philosophy in this forum, ONLY in as far as it relates to what is printed in the books.  If we are curious about some elements of Bhuddism or Confucianism because it is tangentially brought up in a Disney Comics story, then we should take that philosophical or real historical question or observation to the "Lounge" portion of this forum.  But, even there, we should keep away from a topic , like religion, that might easily offend someone whose belief in that area might be, to some posters, the core of his or her being.  That can only lead to bad feelings.

[marco996]

Dec 29, 2017 4:17:55 GMT RobbK1 said:

So, Whatever, and all of us shouldn't be getting into details of any religion, or even philosophy in this forum, ONLY in as far as it relates to what is printed in the books.  If we are curious about some elements of Bhuddism or Confucianism because it is tangentially brought up in a Disney Comics story, then we should take that philosophical or real historical question or observation to the "Lounge" portion of this forum.  But, even there, we should keep away from a topic , like religion, that might easily offend someone whose belief in that area might be, to some posters, the core of his or her being.  That can only lead to bad feelings.

Agreed. We can discuss how authors were inspired by religions or mythologies (like Vikings in a Bark story...)

[Hector]

Dec 28, 2017 23:37:17 GMT RobbK1 said:

Dec 28, 2017 22:36:24 GMT Hector said:

Ok, let me try again. What does 'naughty list' mean? If it only includes those
whose morals do not include solidarity and sympathy, who only care for their
own prosperity and will do anything it takes to get there, then the naughty
list includes...
-Beagle Boys (Barks/Rosa)
-Glomgold
-Scrooge (Martina)
-Gladstone (Barkses early version, pre 'luckiest duck in the world' concept)

Now, if by 'naughty', we mean someone who misbehaves one way or another,
the list extends to everybody but Gyro and Grandma Duck, since everybody
else has defied at least some generally acceptable rules of honesty from
time to time.

Are you suggesting that ADULTS believe that their gifts are delivered by Saint Nikolas (who died about 352 A.D.)  And they believe that the ghost of that man delivers millions of gifts on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, or takes a steamship from Spain to Amsterdam, and then rides his horse atop rooftops carrying all those gifts in one bag,with only one helper?  And that they believe they won't get gifts from him if they've behaved badly the past year???

Wait, i thought the question at the OP was which characters are in 'naughty list' regardless of their age. If the question is only about kids,
then the nephews are in the naughty list during pre Junior Woodchuck era but get moved to the good list after they join Junior Woodchucks.
About Daisy's nephews, i don't know, not much is known about them, but they seem shallow and only caring about their looks, at least in the
stories i have happened to come across them. Of course that can be forgiven due to their age; you can't expect a child to always have deeper
interests. All in all, depends on Santa's mood where they fall.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Dec 29, 2017 11:34:48 GMT Hector said:

About Daisy's nephews, i don't know, not much is known about them, but they seem shallow and only caring about their looks, at least in the
stories i have happened to come across them.

I think you mean nieces. And substantially more is known about April, May and June in non-Barks, foreign comics (such as the Duckies one-pagers). At the least, being in the Chickadees Patrol ought to weigh for their being on the "good" list.  

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Dec 29, 2017 2:42:27 GMT deb said:

Traditionally, Disney comics are written with children in mind, so it isn't unusual for Donald, Mickey or Uncle Scrooge to write letters to Santa, much less be worried about not getting a gift from him. To adults, yes it may seem silly, but to kids it makes for an entertaining story.

This leads to an interesting discussion; while in most Disney comics stories Santa is real and everyone know it, maybe we can list stories where the adult characters, at least, believe Santa to be a fabrication (which I can envision being further subdivided into three categories: (A) the story either confirms that real-world view or does not provide evidence to the contrary, (B) the story raises doubts in readers' minds and leaves Santa's existence open to question, or (C) the adults ultimately learn that Santa in fact unambiguously exists).

Barks' Cuspidoria story, for example, would fit into Category A (Scrooge's joke at the end notwithstanding, as it doesn't really prove that Scrooge believes in Santa, nor confirms Santa's existence).
I also remember a Branca-drawn story where the adults (Donald, Scrooge, Gus) hire an actor to play Santa for HD&L's benefit, and then worry that Grandma is going senile since she seems to believe the real Santa will be arriving soon, until lo and behold, he actually does at the end of the story, which would be an example of Category C (does anyone have know what story this is)?

Any other examples?

EDIT: This is the story.