Is Dopey mute?

[Hector]

In Snow White movie (unless it's a dub error), Snow White asks
whether Dopey is mute and another dwarf answers 'no, he just
doesn't feel like talking'.
But, in Romano Scarpa's stories, Dopey is shown as clearly unable
to speak.

[Orora]

From production notes, they intended Dopey to speak but couldn't find a voice that could fit him. So they decided to make him mute.

There was also supposed to be a prequel movie/story about the Seven Dwarves where Dopey would have stopped talking, traumatized ever since he saw his mother die... apparently.

[Pan Maciej]

Jan 19, 2018 11:42:34 GMT Orora said:

There was also supposed to be a prequel movie/story about the Seven Dwarves where Dopey would have stopped talking, traumatized ever since he saw his mother die... 

WHAT...?


In the orginal dialog :

Happy : This is Doopey, he don't talk.
Snow White : You mean he can't?
Happy : He don't know. He never tried.
Snow White : (laughs) Ooooh, that's to bad!

Cute gag, btw.

[Scroogerello]

Jan 19, 2018 11:42:34 GMT Orora said:

There was also supposed to be a prequel movie/story about the Seven Dwarves where Dopey would have stopped talking, traumatized ever since he saw his mother die... apparently.

It's true (believe it or not). However, that wasn't the in the original story of the film; originally, the prequel was apparently very promising and well-received, and a potential new film franchise series. This whole "Dopey having a tragic backstory" was later demanded to be added by some oddball executive, and this was the reason why the whole film was cancelled.
( animatedviews.com/2013/mike-disa-and-the-seven-dwarfs-how-the-snow-white-prequel-became-a-dopey-movie/ )
I think the original prequel idea actually sounded quite enjoyable.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

In the movies, as already quoted by Pan, the other Dwarfs make light of Dopey's muteness and just say he 'never tried to speak'. However, going by the comics, it does seem like Dopey is genuinely mute; in The Seven Dwarfs and the Enchanted Faerie (a.k.a. The Seven Keys of Danger), his dearest wish is to be able to talk just once, after all. 

[Pan Maciej]

I always asume Dopey was strongly inspired by Harpo Marx charcter who never talk but sometimes "spoke" in whistles or made some animal-like sounds on few rare ocasions.



 While nobody ever bring it up, In the movies it's clear Harpo character is genuinely mute as he never talk in life or death situatons or when he is ment to tell somebody importante message he just shows it in pantomime even if ones life is on the line. If not talking was just an act he would most likle didn't waste time on some comedic rutine and just said what's going on.



Same for Dopey - when in the movie he is scared and explaining what monster is in the home he just make a bunch of pantomime gestures.  So yhe, for my money Dopey is trully mute. 

[Hyaroo]

I always assumed that the "he don't know, he never tried," was just Happy making a joke. Like, Dopey is really mute but doesn't want to be pitied for it, and Snow White was heading straight for "pity" territory when asking if Dopey couldn't talk -- so Happy turned it into a quip about Dopey never having tried to talk.

That original prequel does sound interesting. The Dwarfs are certainly strong enough characters to carry a story on their own. (I've been watching through the "7D" show, which is surprisingly fun -- okay, it's clearly not the same seven dwarfs, but the basics are there.)

[Scroogerello]

Jan 20, 2018 19:22:26 GMT Hyaroo said:

That original prequel does sound interesting. The Dwarfs are certainly strong enough characters to carry a story on their own. (I've been watching through the "7D" show, which is surprisingly fun -- okay, it's clearly not the same seven dwarfs, but the basics are there.)

Although I've never watched the 7D television series (I thought it was a shame they abandoned the original character designs and overall setting), I certainly agree that the dwarves should very well be able to carry a story on their own (after all, most would agree that they are by far the best part of the original film). Especially given that the original story was met with such positive reactions (even by John Lasseter's people, before Mike Disa left), I'm sort of surprised they never revisited the idea and gave it another shot. It sounds a whole lot more original and entertaining than a lot of other Disney sequels (or the whole chain of "live-action remakes" they're currently bringing out, for that matter.

[Scroogerello]

Also, note that Dopey lets out a few screams in the original film (for example when he is startled by Snow White waking up, shortly after the Dwarves enter the cottage), so it doesn't seem he's genuinely mute. Both Eddie Collins and Pinto Colvig have been credited for Dopey's voice and vocal effects.

[Hyaroo]

Completely agree!

As for the 7D -- if you accept that these aren't the same seven dwarfs, beyond the names and broad personality traits, the show is very good for what it is. It has some great dialogue and fun comedy -- and I'll admit, the new dwarfs are charming enough. (Since the show has a number modern references, I tend to view it as taking place much later than the movies, with these dwarfs being descendants of the original seven -- and Queen Delightful being a descendant of Snow White and the Prince.)

Completely unrelated, but some time ago I drew the 7D in a style more remeniscent of the old movie. I still rather like how they turned out!

[Scroogerello]

Jan 20, 2018 20:28:41 GMT Hyaroo said:

Completely agree!

As for the 7D -- if you accept that these aren't the same seven dwarfs, beyond the names and broad personality traits, the show is very good for what it is. It has some great dialogue and fun comedy -- and I'll admit, the new dwarfs are charming enough. (Since the show has a number modern references, I tend to view it as taking place much later than the movies, with these dwarfs being descendants of the original seven -- and Queen Delightful being a descendant of Snow White and the Prince.)

Completely unrelated, but some time ago I drew the 7D in a style more remeniscent of the old movie. I still rather like how they turned out!

Are there any particular episodes you'd recommend?

Awesome artwork, by the way! Very reminiscent of Disney's late '30s/early 40s feature animation style.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jan 20, 2018 20:28:41 GMT Hyaroo said:

Completely agree!

As for the 7D -- if you accept that these aren't the same seven dwarfs, beyond the names and broad personality traits, the show is very good for what it is. It has some great dialogue and fun comedy -- and I'll admit, the new dwarfs are charming enough. (Since the show has a number modern references, I tend to view it as taking place much later than the movies, with these dwarfs being descendants of the original seven -- and Queen Delightful being a descendant of Snow White and the Prince.)

Completely unrelated, but some time ago I drew the 7D in a style more remeniscent of the old movie. I still rather like how they turned out!

Nice 7D art, yes! As for the timeline idea: it has merit, although because of Grimhilde and the original Dwarfs being recurring characters in Disney comics, I tend to think of the world of Snow White as actually a "fantasy realm" existing in the present-day, as opposed to a historical period. 

[Hyaroo]

Jan 20, 2018 21:14:14 GMT Scroogerello said:

Awesome artwork, by the way! Very reminiscent of Disney's late '30s/early 40s feature animation style.

Thanks! That was the look I was going for... like "okay, if the 7D had been designed for the original movie, how would they have looked?" Probably not quite like that, but it was a fun challenge to try and give them more classic appearances while still staying true to their general look and design. ^_^

As for episodes... Well, the show is fun, but I'm not sure if any episodes really stand out.

Possibly the 6th episode, The Littlest Giants, as that's clearly meant to be the first episode -- it provides an introduction to all the major characters, the premise and the set-up, and it's a very good introduction to the tone and feel of the show: Very goofy, borderline parody, but well-executed. (It is the only episode to be animated in Flash rather than the traditional hand-drawn animation of the rest of the show, but for Flash animation it looks pretty good.)

The Dwarfs have the basic personalities of their classic counterparts, but there are differences:

- Doc is the most changed; he's still the leader, but he doesn't muddle his words, and he's more of an absentminded Gyro Gearloose type inventor. He also serves as translator for Dopey.
- Happy is a more forceful personality; he carries his guitar everywhere and bursts into cheery, rockin' songs at every opportunity, which of course annoys Grumpy.
- Grumpy is more deadpan and sarcastic, but notably softer around the edges than the prickly curmudgeon that was the original. Still quick to anger and quick to complain, though.
- Dopey still doesn't talk, but he communicates using whistles, and occasionally animal sounds. He has a gift with animals, and occasionally acts more like an animal than a person. He's more Harpo Marx-like than ever.
- Bashful isn't just shy, he's scared. He's always hiding himself, behind the other dwarfs, or inside objects, trying to blend in with the surroundings.
- Sleepy is pretty much the same, except he's gained a tendency to use "radical" slang and make weird puns, all in that drowsy voice. You just know that if Lorenzo Music had still been alive, he would have been Sleepy's voice.
- Sneezy plays up the "sickly neurotic geek" trope for all it's worth; he's allergic to everything and anything, and his sneezes are more powerful than ever.

Jan 20, 2018 22:27:10 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Nice 7D art, yes! As for the timeline idea: it has merit, although because of Grimhilde and the original Dwarfs being recurring characters in Disney comics, I tend to think of the world of Snow White as actually a "fantasy realm" existing in the present-day, as opposed to a historical period. 

That is a good point. Maybe The 7D is really set in the far-off future? ^_^

My main reason for thinking as I did was that we see the dwarves' grandfathers in the show and they have the same names and general personalities -- it's also hinted that the 7D are descended from the "seven sages," the founders of Jollywood, who had the same basic attributes (Doc even inherited his hat from one of them). So names and character traits seem to be passed down in the family, and it seems plausible that the classic seven dwarfs are part of that family tree.