Post by seymour747millplane on Jan 21, 2018 1:26:03 GMT
Here is an interesting crossover.
This is one is from a comic where the rich Scrooge McDuck comes over to Grandma Duck’s house and sics a pallet swapped orange and white Lucifer onto Jaq and Gus. Surprisingly, Gus outwits Lucifer.
How would you analyze this scene using the Modified Emslie Anthropomorphism Scale?
What else do you have to say about this comic and crossover?
This is one is from a comic where the rich Scrooge McDuck comes over to Grandma Duck’s house and sics a pallet swapped orange and white Lucifer onto Jaq and Gus. Surprisingly, Gus outwits Lucifer.
How would you analyze this scene using the Modified Emslie Anthropomorphism Scale?
What else do you have to say about this comic and crossover?
I have to admit that I was expecting something else when I first read the title of this thread. MEAS-wise, this is easy: Scrooge and Grandma MEAS-4b1s as usual, Jaq and Gus-Gus MEAS-3, and Lucifer is MEAS-1 (doesn't talk to any other characters). Isn't this the story where Scrooge starts off never having previously met Grandma? I see he's depicted as a heartless, money-grubbing, evil venture capitalist here. Not sure this is a "crossover" per se, since Jaq and Gus-Gus were generally accepted as a permanent part-and-parcel of Grandma's farm (shudder).
Drat! I was expecting to find out about a story I didn't know, in which Scrooge makes a pact with The Devil, to make him rich, but has given up his immortal Soul. Later, he regrets what he had done, and Donald and Huey, Dewey and Louie are hired at 30¢ an hour, to save his Soul. But, in the end, it takes 2 lowly mice (including a really thick-headed one) to outsmart the evil King of The underworld. Would have been quite a memorable Disney story!
This is one is from a comic where the rich Scrooge McDuck comes over to Grandma Duck’s house and sics a pallet swapped orange and white Lucifer onto Jaq and Gus. Surprisingly, Gus outwits Lucifer.
How would you analyze this scene using the Modified Emslie Anthropomorphism Scale?
What else do you have to say about this comic and crossover?
Ah yes, I did know that story… The palette-swap means nothing (the colorists of the time were just weird). As to anthropomorphism, I would say Lucifer is clearly a MEAS-1 as in the original film. Jacq and Gus are essentially MEAS-3, but treated as MEAS-2 by the narrative (much like the mice in The Rescuers, if you will); the MEAS doesn't actuall account for this type of character. As for Scrooge and Grandma, they are MEAS-4 as usual.
Drat! I was expecting to find out about a story I didn't know, in which Scrooge makes a pact with The Devil, to make him rich, but has given up his immortal Soul. Later, he regrets what he had done, and Donald and Huey, Dewey and Louie are hired at 30¢ an hour, to save his Soul. But, in the end, it takes 2 lowly mice (including a really thick-headed one) to outsmart the evil King of The underworld. Would have been quite a memorable Disney story!
This is one is from a comic where the rich Scrooge McDuck comes over to Grandma Duck’s house and sics a pallet swapped orange and white Lucifer onto Jaq and Gus. Surprisingly, Gus outwits Lucifer.
How would you analyze this scene using the Modified Emslie Anthropomorphism Scale?
What else do you have to say about this comic and crossover?
I have to admit that I was expecting something else when I first read the title of this thread. MEAS-wise, this is easy: Scrooge and Grandma MEAS-4b1s as usual, Jaq and Gus-Gus MEAS-3, and Lucifer is MEAS-1 (doesn't talk to any other characters). Isn't this the story where Scrooge starts off never having previously met Grandma? I see he's depicted as a heartless, money-grubbing, evil venture capitalist here. Not sure this is a "crossover" per se, since Jaq and Gus-Gus were generally accepted as a permanent part-and-parcel of Grandma's farm (shudder).
Speaking of the MEAS, I split the MEAS-1, MEAS-2, and MEAS-3 levels each into two sublevels.
1) MEAS-1 into MEAS-1a (completely normal animal) and MEAS-1b (normal animal with human sapience)
2) MEAS-2 into MEAS-2a (normal animal that talks only to other animals) and MEAS-2b (normal animal that talks to humans and other animals)
3) MEAS-3 into MEAS-3a (normal-sized bipedal animal with a fringe civilization and not integrated into human society) and MEAS-3b (normal-sized bipedal animal integrated into human society).
Isn't this the story where Scrooge starts off never having previously met Grandma? I see he's depicted as a heartless, money-grubbing, evil venture capitalist here. Not sure this is a "crossover" per se, since Jaq and Gus-Gus were generally accepted as a permanent part-and-parcel of Grandma's farm (shudder).
They know each other in it, Scrooge even simply calls Grandma "woman" and says he is her rich relative. But yes, your description is spats... er... spot on.
One interesting thing is that in one Barks story, Donald buys Scrooge a cat (for $10!) which looks exactly like Lucifer and we never see him sell it after that. I never liked Jaq and Gus being at Grandma's farm but kind of like the idea that Scrooge is Lucifer's owner (at least for a short time). Yes, he is a very evil cat in the cartoon but I think he could be a little different in this context, similar to Iago who was depicted as evil with Jafar in the movie but more like an antihero in the animated series. Basically, he would be a normal cat, but the kind of cat Scrooge would have as his pet. (Obviously, he would have to catch his own food - the rodents in the Money Bin - and Scrooge would give him only water to drink. How would he stay so fat, I don't know... )
Basically, he would be a normal cat, but the kind of cat Scrooge would have as his pet. (Obviously, he would have to catch his own food - the rodents in the Money Bin - and Scrooge would give him only water to drink. How would he stay so fat, I don't know... )
Scrooge had another cat at one time, Clementine, who appeared (I believe) in a Barks one-pager, and was used sporadically by other creators thereafter. As far as we know, he still owns both cats. Scrooge would probably only pretend that his cats would have to live of its own kills, and secretly spoil them rotten. I have no idea how to explain the appearance of Lucifer (the cat from Cinderella) in the Duckverse, or for that matter, Figaro (the cat from Pinocchio) being Minnie's pet, but it doesn't bother me as much as crossovers like Dumbo flying over Grandma's farm, or Big Bad Wolf wanting to eat Donald. I guess mismatches between MEAS levels are what I find off-putting, like MEAS-2 or 3 characters interacting with the usual MEAS-4s. The only characters that should exist in the Duckverse and Mouseverse are MEAS-1s and 4s, IMHO (of course, I am also an ardent believer in the Separation of Duck and Mouse, but that's another topic not relevant to the story we're discussing here). I do like Lucifer's design, and Barks didn't identify the cat by name, so maybe he's not the same cat, just a lookalike?
seymour747millplane said:
Speaking of the MEAS, I split the MEAS-1, MEAS-2, and MEAS-3 levels each into two sublevels.
1) MEAS-1 into MEAS-1a (completely normal animal) and MEAS-1b (normal animal with human sapience)
Completely normal animals should be MEAS-0 (nonanthropomorphic), I would say.
TitusMcDuck said:
Is that a real story?
If it were, I think I can predict what the lead story in Uncle Scrooge#666 will be.
Scrooge had another cat at one time, Clementine, who appeared (I believe) in a Barks one-pager, and was used sporadically by other creators thereafter. As far as we know, he still owns both cats. Scrooge would probably only pretend that his cats would have to live of its own kills, and secretly spoil them rotten. I have no idea how to explain the appearance of Lucifer (the cat from Cinderella) in the Duckverse, or for that matter, Figaro (the cat from Pinocchio) being Minnie's pet, but it doesn't bother me as much as crossovers like Dumbo flying over Grandma's farm
I don't know how Figaro changed owners, but it doesn't seem absurd that post-Twist in Time Tremaine would sell Lucifer for some quick money.
Scrooge had another cat at one time, Clementine, who appeared (I believe) in a Barks one-pager, and was used sporadically by other creators thereafter. As far as we know, he still owns both cats.
And all her kittens. I wonder who their father might be... (...and I wonder how many cat-shipping fanfiction will born in the dark corners of the Internet from this conversation?)
I have no idea how to explain the appearance of Lucifer (the cat from Cinderella) in the Duckverse, or for that matter, Figaro (the cat from Pinocchio) being Minnie's pet, but it doesn't bother me as much as crossovers like Dumbo flying over Grandma's farm, or Big Bad Wolf wanting to eat Donald. I guess mismatches between MEAS levels are what I find off-putting, like MEAS-2 or 3 characters interacting with the usual MEAS-4s. The only characters that should exist in the Duckverse and Mouseverse are MEAS-1s and 4s, IMHO (of course, I am also an ardent believer in the Separation of Duck and Mouse, but that's another topic not relevant to the story we're discussing here). I do like Lucifer's design, and Barks didn't identify the cat by name, so maybe he's not the same cat, just a lookalike?
I think he is supposed to be a lookalike in the Barks story (although, in this other story the mice recognise him, but the whole thing doesn't really make sense). Similar to Alice's cat Dinah, who looks like Figaro in the comic adaptation. Maybe they are the standard Disney-style representations of their breeds (I remember some Pluto-shaped dogs from the early Taliaferro Donald strips too), but obviously later the artists used so many different designs that there is no more standard Disney look for animals. (Well, OK, there never really was a unified Disney comic style, Gottfredson's Donald didn't look like Taliaferro's, Taliaferro's didn't look like Barks', etc.)
Post by Baar Baar Jinx on Jan 21, 2018 14:27:31 GMT
Not to get too off-topic here, but since we're discussing cats in the Duckverse, I recently read a theory that the reason we never see Tabby (Donald's cat in the Kinney/Hubbard Fethry stories that many believe are set in the days before HD&L came to live with Donald, who cowered in fear every time Fethry came to visit with his latest hare-brained scheme) is because he was ultimately adopted ... by Fethry! That struck me as hilarious. I'd love to see how Fethry wormed his way into Tabby's heart to the point where he'd be willing to actually live with him. And the explanation beats alternative reasons for Tabby to be missing in stories with HD&L, such as his having died or been adopted by total strangers. A cat named Tabby did make a one-time appearance in a Barks ten-pager, but "Tabby" is too generic a name for Kinney/Hubbard to have meant the two to be the same character. An in-universe explanation may be that Fethry needed someone to pet-sit for the weekend or some such.
Scrooge had another cat at one time, Clementine, who appeared (I believe) in a Barks one-pager, and was used sporadically by other creators thereafter. As far as we know, he still owns both cats.
And all her kittens. I wonder who their father may be... (...and I wonder how many cat-shipping fanfiction will born in the dark corners of the Internet from this conversation?)
That Lucifer lookalike seems the obvious choice. Scrooge was obviously too cheap to spay and neuter.
Not to get too off-topic here, but since we're discussing cats in the Duckverse, I recently read a theory that the reason we never see Tabby (Donald's cat in the Kinney/Hubbard Fethry stories that many believe are set in the days before HD&L came to live with Donald, who cowered in fear every time Fethry came to visit with his latest hare-brained scheme) is because he was ultimately adopted ... by Fethry! That struck me as hilarious. I'd love to see how Fethry wormed his way into Tabby's heart to the point where he'd be willing to actually live with him. And the explanation beats alternative reasons for Tabby to be missing in stories with HD&L, such as his having died or been adopted by total strangers. A cat named Tabby did make a one-time appearance in a Barks ten-pager, but "Tabby" is too generic a name for Kinney/Hubbard to have meant the two to be the same character. An in-universe explanation may be that Fethry needed someone to pet-sit for the weekend or some such.
I don't buy the idea of the Kinney/Hubbard stories happening earlier, but I do like the idea that Tabby ended up in Fethry's care which is why he hasn't appeared as Donald's pet in years.