another random question, on Dutch Woodchucks

[Matilda]

So, I just got a copy of Picsou 244, in order to read Faria's Stonehenge story, because I wanted to see Magica's ancestor as Morgan le Fay. (Merlin in this story looks like the Merlin of "The Sword in the Stone", which would incidentally allow one to put the events of that movie in the past of the Duckworld, which rather pleases me.) But that's not what I'm asking about. This issue includes the Geradts story Veel te bont, which has a fun callback to Scrooge's prospecting days in the Yukon. The story is called in French "Retour à Castorcity" (Back to Beavercity). It begins with the nephews getting new gold medals on their Woodchuck caps. Donald complains that their caps are made of beaver fur, and the beaver is a protected species. Nephews reply: "You're right! But this is fake beaver fur!/The Junior Beavers (Castors Juniors, in French) respect nature!" Then when the Ducks arrive in Canada, a customs official confiscates the boys' Woodchuck caps, on the grounds that the beaver is a protected species. The boys object that the caps are imitation fur, but the customs agent is unmoved, because even imitation fur could inspire hunters. This is a Chekhov's gun which fires later in the story, as beaver fur will come up again, and the story makes it clear that it definitely has to be beavers we're talking about.

So here's the question: in Dutch, the Junior Woodchucks' name is Jonge Woudlopers, and that does not translate as Young Beavers, right? So how the heck did this set-up work in Dutch? Plus: Does Geradts actually think the JWs' caps are made of beaver fur (or fake beaver fur)? Why would he think that, if the JWs are not called "Junior Beavers" in Dutch? If he does think the caps are supposed to be beaver fur, what does he think those tails are? They are definitely not beaver tails. Anyone out there who can check the Dutch version of this story? 

[RobbK1]

Apr 24, 2018 4:04:03 GMT Matilda said:

So, I just got a copy of Picsou 244, in order to read Faria's Stonehenge story, because I wanted to see Magica's ancestor as Morgan le Fay. (Merlin in this story looks like the Merlin of "The Sword in the Stone", which would incidentally allow one to put the events of that movie in the past of the Duckworld, which rather pleases me.) But that's not what I'm asking about. This issue includes the Geradts story Veel te bont, which has a fun callback to Scrooge's prospecting days in the Yukon. The story is called in French "Retour à Castorcity" (Back to Beavercity). It begins with the nephews getting new gold medals on their Woodchuck caps. Donald complains that their caps are made of beaver fur, and the beaver is a protected species. Nephews reply: "You're right! But this is fake beaver fur!/The Junior Beavers (Castors Juniors, in French) respect nature!" Then when the Ducks arrive in Canada, a customs official confiscates the boys' Woodchuck caps, on the grounds that the beaver is a protected species. The boys object that the caps are imitation fur, but the customs agent is unmoved, because even imitation fur could inspire hunters. This is a Chekhov's gun which fires later in the story, as beaver fur will come up again, and the story makes it clear that it definitely has to be beavers we're talking about.

So here's the question: in Dutch, the Junior Woodchucks' name is Jonge Woudlopers, and that does not translate as Young Beavers, right? So how the heck did this set-up work in Dutch? Plus: Does Geradts actually think the JWs' caps are made of beaver fur (or fake beaver fur)? Why would he think that, if the JWs are not called "Junior Beavers" in Dutch? If he does think the caps are supposed to be beaver fur, what does he think those tails are? They are definitely not beaver tails. Anyone out there who can check the Dutch version of this story? 

"Jonge Woudlopers" translates literally to "Young Woodwalkers".  But, people would recognise that in a generic form, implying something of the value of "Young Woodsmen".  So, you are correct in assuming that "Junior Beavers" wouldn't match up exactly with this "saving the beavers" story line.  However, in The Netherlands, both Barks and non-Barks Jonge Woudlopers stories stress that organization's attitude towards preserving the forest environment/ecosystem, especially its animal species.  Therefore, most, if not all, Dutch readers would automatically know that it would be Jonge Woudloper policy to work towards "preserving/saving the beavers", and not wear real beaver or raccoon pelts on their heads.  Clearly their caps are NOT beaver tails.  I don't currently have the Dutch issue with that story(or, at least, don't have it with me).  I'll return to The Netherlands in a few weeks, and have access to that issue (but likely forget to look it up).  But, given that The Nephews' hats are clearly NOT BEAVER tails, I would bet the farm that The Woudlopers' animal pelt hats are NOT called "beaver tail hats", but that of another northern forest animal (most likely raccoon, or, at worst one other than "beaver"), and the city/town is accordingly named after that same other animal.  As far as I remember, there is no Dutch tradition of referring to The Junior Woodchucks' caps as having the tail of ANY defined animal (the same being true for the English language issues).  But, in my estimation, the tails are closest in visual representation to raccoons.  In a Barks early 1950s (1951 or 1952) story, The Nephews received the rank of "Hightails".  That was the only reference I can remember to the tails on their caps.

[Matilda]

In the story, the later appearance of beaver pelts (this is a spoiler, I'm sorry, but there's no way to avoid spoilers while explaining my question) clearly identifies them as beaver pelts, made explicit even visually in the final panel where living beavers are cutting down trees to make a dam (a human-made dam also features centrally in the story). So I don't believe the original script could have used any other animal. This works in French (despite the obviously non-beaver tails on the caps), due to the French name of the JWs, but I can't for the life of me understand how it works in Dutch! I guess the reader just had to go along with the idea that the Jonge Woudlopers' hats are (fake) beaver fur.

The JW caps are clearly inspired by the coonskin caps that were all the rage in the 1950's in the USA and Britain. So, I figure the default is that they are (real or fake) raccoon fur & tail. Though the tails aren't striped. I suppose they could also be thought to be (real or fake) woodchuck fur & tails.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Apr 24, 2018 4:04:03 GMT Matilda said:

(Merlin in this story looks like the Merlin of "The Sword in the Stone", which would incidentally allow one to put the events of that movie in the past of the Duckworld, which rather pleases me.) 

Ah, that story! I rather like, but have somehow misplaced my copy, dammit. At any rate, yes, I do consider Disney's Sword in the Stone to be the past of the Disney Comics Universe (though in my case that's only one of many many many miscellaneous Disney properties I've crammed in there). That one always seemed pretty seamless to me, unfortunate Don Rosa stories notwithstanding, what with Madam Mim being a semi-regular.

Also, the Arthurian Legend episode of The Time Machine again showed a Magica-like, possibly-De-Spell-ancestor Morgan le Fay, which is a neat bit of uninentional continuity. (I say unintentional because Merlin in that story is a dognose who doesn't even dress in blue…)

[LP]

I always assumed their hats were made from foxes. At least the tail matches.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Apr 24, 2018 19:35:23 GMT LP said:

I always assumed their hats were made from foxes. At least the tail matches.

Unlikely. I mean, perhaps that was what Barks intended at first, but as far as I know they've always been colored one shade of brown or another, and darker than not in modern printings. Foxes are probably out. 

[RobbK1]

Apr 24, 2018 13:21:02 GMT Matilda said:

In the story, the later appearance of beaver pelts (this is a spoiler, I'm sorry, but there's no way to avoid spoilers while explaining my question) clearly identifies them as beaver pelts, made explicit even visually in the final panel where living beavers are cutting down trees to make a dam (a human-made dam also features centrally in the story). So I don't believe the original script could have used any other animal. This works in French (despite the obviously non-beaver tails on the caps), due to the French name of the JWs, but I can't for the life of me understand how it works in Dutch! I guess the reader just had to go along with the idea that the Jonge Woudlopers' hats are (fake) beaver fur.

The JW caps are clearly inspired by the coonskin caps that were all the rage in the 1950's in the USA and Britain. So, I figure the default is that they are (real or fake) raccoon fur & tail. Though the tails aren't striped. I suppose they could also be thought to be (real or fake) woodchuck fur & tails.

Woodchucks' tails don't look like that.  They look the colours of foxes' tails, but the shape is wrong.  They should be fatter in the middle.  They are shaped more like ferrets' or weasels', but the colour scheme is wrong. 

[drleevezan]

Apr 24, 2018 19:43:27 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Apr 24, 2018 19:35:23 GMT LP said:

I always assumed their hats were made from foxes. At least the tail matches.

Unlikely. I mean, perhaps that was what Barks intended at first, but as far as I know they've always been colored one shade of brown or another, and darker than not in modern printings. Foxes are probably out. 

I always assumed it was a fox tail, also. Maybe a Ruppell's Fox? They've got brown-ish tails with a white patch on the end: 

[RobbK1]

Apr 24, 2018 20:27:59 GMT drleevezan said:

Apr 24, 2018 19:43:27 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Unlikely. I mean, perhaps that was what Barks intended at first, but as far as I know they've always been colored one shade of brown or another, and darker than not in modern printings. Foxes are probably out. 

I always assumed it was a fox tail, also. Maybe a Ruppell's Fox? They've got brown-ish tails with a white patch on the end: 

Then, they should have been called The Junior Ruppell's Foxes!  Had Barks not invented The Junior Woodchucks, and I was inventive  enough to invent a Boy Scouts parody "forest club" for Huey, Dewey, and Louie, I'd have made their Davy Crockett coonskin caps be made from mock pelts of the same animal for which they'd be named.  To make fun of Crockett's coonskin cap craze. I'd have used an animal with a tail similar enough to that of a raccoon, to remind the reader of Crockett's cap.  A woodchuck might have been close enough.  "Junior Ferrets" and "Junior Weasels" certainly are not good candidates to make fun of a "do-gooders' club.