The "ultimate" Duck family tree

[mkr]

May 16, 2024 9:03:48 GMT juicymcduck said:

NOW, to the point! While coming up with these excerpts, I carefully reviewed the family tree thread here… only to stray from it in several significant ways. It all stemmed from the fact that Pah-Peh-Rheo/Paperonius from Paperina e i papiri del Pah-Peh-Rheo is presented as the progenitor of a separate "McPaperon clan" instead of the McDuich/McDuck clan. To me, it seems clear that Martina intended him to be THE main ancestor of Scrooge, and therefore the progenitor of his main line of ancestry, clan M(a)cDuich*. As a consequence, his descendant from Paperon McPaperon e le sterline di Trisnonna Papera, Paperon McPaperon, had to be a McDuich (and he is called Picsou McDuich in the already existing French version of that story, which I couldn’t change). The problem, of course, is that Paperon McPaperon moved to Spain, where he established a Spanish line, and therefore probably didn’t beget the next generation of Scottish McDuich. At second glance, this isn't a problem at all: I've just decided that Paperon McPaperon wasn't the clan laird, but a cousin of the clan laird, who at that time would be Quack McDuck from The Last of the McDucks. Therefore, Paperon McPaperon and his contemporary Simon McDuck from A Letter from Home would be fourth cousins (since they shared a set of great-great-great-grandparents) instead of not being related at all. I assume the Scottish and Spanish lines joined later down the road via Don de Pato, whose daughter or granddaughter must’ve married a McDuck from Scotland.

None of that is intended as a slight to the great work that went into this thread. I just felt it necessary to streamline things a little bit. I should also point out that these "notebooks" are presented as Von Drake’s research and theories, which leaves room for him to be wrong. (Possibly because he's made Wiener Schnitzel stains on his notes.) 

Interesting. I suppose we can rearrange the tree a bit, to make it a bit more in line with Von Drake's research There isn't I think a specific need to have Pah-Peh-Rheo's line very separated from the McDuck line. So putting him as the progenitor of the McDuich line and then having Paperon McPaperon as a cousin of Quack could indeed work. It actually would make sense regarding Paperete from Ancient Egypt, who is already in the McDuck line, and can quite logically be Pah-Peh-Rheo's ancestor.

As for joining the Spanish and Scottish lines again, that happens already in the tree, but not via the granddaughter of Don de Pato, but a few generations later, via de great-granddaughter of Paperion Paperonies, in order to have him as a direct ancestor of Scrooge as well. 

[mkr]

A new update of the tree (version 15) is now available on the website. Adoptions have been added, as well as clones, and newly found relatives. None of the Baby Looney Tunes and their trees have been added yet. Those can be added with the next update.

I had to make some rearrangements in the tree, in order to put all those new relatives in, as well as to make Pah-Peh-Rheo the progenitor of the McDuck lineage; and Paperon McPaperon a cousin of Quack McDuck. As a result, the order of relatives in the spreadsheet will now at certain points have quite some disagreements with the tree. I usually try to avoid that as much as possible, but in this case my attempt to make the tree a bit more organized without too many crossing lines, made these rearrangements unavoidable.

The following relatives have been added:

• Paperon de’Pigrottin from I TL 1900-A was added as the father of Diamond Lil.
• Horatio Duck (called Horatio McDuck on the tree) from D 6574 was added as a son of Herbert.
• Raleigh McDuck from D 8728 was added as the son of Quackerush.
• Robin Duck from D 8988 was added as an ancestor of Donald (as a brother of Paperino from I TL 1530-B).
• Duckie from I TL 2358-3 was added as a sister of Daisy’s mother.
• Brigitta “Merendolina” from I TL 1737-C was added as an ancestor of Brigitta.
• Three McDuck ancestors shown on portraits in W DD 70-01 were added to fill up some empty spots (two as direct ancestors of Mac Patacon McDuck, and one as the daughter of Braised McDuck.)
• Vigorius McDuck from D 2006-319 was added as a brother of Malcolm’s father.
• Ko from H 2012-194 was added as a son of Arnold Duck.
• Eleanore from H 2013-373 was added as a sister of Daisy’s maternal grandfather.
• Four cousins of Gyro from I CD 537-1 were added. One was named Helmut Gearloose.
• Donald’s Medieval ancestor from I TL 1638-C was added as the father of Robin Duck.
• Francis McDuck from D 7384 was added as a brother of Malcolm. Kilgus Rockerduck from the same story was moved to the same generation.
• Scrooge’s ancestor from I PM 182-1 was added as a brother of Duncan McDuck.
• Schnorri Schnabel from I PM 245-1 was added as a grandson of Arnold Duck.
• Quackarone from I TL 2789-4 was added as the great-grandfather of trisnonna Papera.
• Paperin van der Paper, Paperon van Paperen and Rina van Paper from I TL 3314-5 were added as ancestors via the Dutch branch. Mohican van Paper from S 72267 was moved and is now the father of Rina van Paper.\
• Groempf and Grompf from H 29006 were added as prehistoric ancestors of the ducks. A third unnamed ancestor was added to Gyro’s branch as the son of Archimedek.
• Isaac Carrot from H 2016-040 was added the grandson of Willie Leeghwortel. From the same story were also added Gyro’s ancestors Leonardo da Radice, Toet Ank Gearloose, and Gnoef Peen. Benjamin Carotene was merged with Benjamin Gearloose. The little helpers (Fakkeltje, Vetlampje, Kaarsje, Kandelaartje, Olielampje) were added as “clones” of Gyro’s ancestors.\
• Elvira’s relatives from I G 0717-1 were added as aunt and uncle of Elvira via her mother’s side.
• Jean-Paper Pontière (John-Duck MacBridge) from I SMIT 50-1 was added as Brigitta’s uncle.
• Printer MacBridge from I TL 2709-1 was added as Brigitta’s great-grandfather.
• Herrietta from I TL 2564-1 was added as Brigitta’s aunt.
• Caterina from I TL 2879-5 was added as another aunt of Brigitta. 100 great-great-cousins from the same story were also added.
• Brigitta’s great-grandmother from I TL 2650-3 was also added.
• The descendants from D 2005-070 were added.

• Webbigail/April Vanderquack from DuckTales 2017 was added as the clone of Scrooge. May and June were added as her clones. Bentina Beakley was added as Webby’s adoptive parent. Bentina’s daughter and her son-in-law Vanderquack were also added.
• Little Helper and Mad Ducktor were added as clones of Gyro.
• Ludwig’s clone from House of Mouse was added.
• Many of Fethry’s clones from I TL 3011-2 were added.

• Cosette from I TL 1743-AP was added as the adopted child of Jean Valduck. From the same story were also added her husband Donald D. Pontmercy, their 4 children, Cosette’s adoptive parents Trudy and Tom Thénardier and their 2 children.
• Joey from Daddy Duck was added as the adoptive child of Donald.
• Bubba Duck from DuckTales (original series) was added as the adoptive child of Scrooge.
• The Bassottos family from I TL 1800-AP was added as adoptive parents of Anatruccolos.
• Guinevere from A Twisted Tale: Set in Stone was added as adoptive child of Mim. Leodegrance and Camile were added as Guinevere’s parents. Arthur “Wart” Pendragon was added as husband of Guinevere. Uther Pendragon was added as Arthur’s father. Ector was added as Arthur’s foster father. Kay was added as Ector’s son. Artie was added as Arthur’s son. For time period, they were all put (together with Mad Maddie) in the Early Middle Ages.
• Both Monna Papera and Milone Paperone from I TL 197-AP were added as they adopted Paperin “meschino”.
• Al E. Gator and Sally were added as the adopted parents of Daffy’s child from Quackodile Tears. Their four children (one adopted by Daffy) were also added.
• Danger Duck’s adoptive parents from In the Pinkster were added.
• Adopted lines were also added between Donald and HDL; between Grandma Duck and Donald; between Fethry and Dugan; between the nephews from I AT 299-B and Paperino; between Sandopaper and his three nephews; between Paperino and his three nephews from I TL 1131-A; between Paulinus Paperinius and his three nephews; between Paul McPaperin and his three nephews; and between Paperin de la Scalogna and his three nephews. There are probably some more HDL ancestor look-a-likes that can be considered adopted by Donald ancestor look-a-likes, but I didn't check yet all stories.

• Jacobus Paperus from I TL 1940-C was renamed Jacob Paperus.
• The Lincoln look-a-like ancestor of Daffy was renamed Abraham Lincoln Duck.
• Cornelius from D 99207 is now a McDuck and was moved to become Titus’ brother. He also has a picture now.
• Mortimer from D 92251 was moved and is now a brother of Gustavo.
• Gohard Duck was removed. Butch Duck is now the father of Bridger.
• Daisy’s aunt Gertrude from D 2006-233 was removed (a French translation error).
• The Duckesque relative (the one that lives in the present) from I TL 1603-B and I TL 1973-C was given the first name Vlad.
• Paprog from the Paperut series was removed as he is not related. As a consequence, Marilut also was removed.

[danoduck]

I just found this grandma's cousin named Clotilde in inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2745-2 

[alquackskey]

May 16, 2024 9:03:48 GMT juicymcduck said:

Warning: lengthy post incoming! This is only tangentially related to the purposes of this thread, but still of interest, I think.

As some of you may know, I work for Picsou Magazine in France. Back in the summer of 2023, I suggested to my editor that we publish the complete Storia e gloria della dinastia dei paperi in French for the first time. I also suggested we do it in the form of notebooks supposedly written by Professor Ludwig von Drake. And we’re doing it right now! The first issue of this three-volume series was out on March 30, and the next is scheduled for July. The concept is that every story is introduced by a page that combines real-life information about the story plus an excerpt from Von Drake’s notebooks, therefore written in-universe (by me). Here are a few pictures:

NOW, to the point! While coming up with these excerpts, I carefully reviewed the family tree thread here… only to stray from it in several significant ways. It all stemmed from the fact that Pah-Peh-Rheo/Paperonius from Paperina e i papiri del Pah-Peh-Rheo is presented as the progenitor of a separate "McPaperon clan" instead of the McDuich/McDuck clan. To me, it seems clear that Martina intended him to be THE main ancestor of Scrooge, and therefore the progenitor of his main line of ancestry, clan M(a)cDuich*. As a consequence, his descendant from Paperon McPaperon e le sterline di Trisnonna Papera, Paperon McPaperon, had to be a McDuich (and he is called Picsou McDuich in the already existing French version of that story, which I couldn’t change). The problem, of course, is that Paperon McPaperon moved to Spain, where he established a Spanish line, and therefore probably didn’t beget the next generation of Scottish McDuich. At second glance, this isn't a problem at all: I've just decided that Paperon McPaperon wasn't the clan laird, but a cousin of the clan laird, who at that time would be Quack McDuck from The Last of the McDucks. Therefore, Paperon McPaperon and his contemporary Simon McDuck from A Letter from Home would be fourth cousins (since they shared a set of great-great-great-grandparents) instead of not being related at all. I assume the Scottish and Spanish lines joined later down the road via Don de Pato, whose daughter or granddaughter must’ve married a McDuck from Scotland.

None of that is intended as a slight to the great work that went into this thread. I just felt it necessary to streamline things a little bit. I should also point out that these "notebooks" are presented as Von Drake’s research and theories, which leaves room for him to be wrong. (Possibly because he's made Wiener Schnitzel stains on his notes.) 

* "Von Drake" even provides an explanation as to how the name MacDuich came to be. The gist is that Duich might be a non-standard spelling of "Dubhthaich" (yep, both would be pronounced the same, believe it or not), which is the possessive form of the given name Dubthach. MacDubhthaich therefore means "son of Dubthach." Now the funny thing is that Dubthach means "dark-skinned," which seems an appropriate moniker for an Egyptian emigrant among the pale Scots!

Fascinating stuff! On a personal note, I do want to thank you for taking the tree here into consideration; I think I can speak for all of us when I say that this is a passion project for the community as a whole at this point, so the fact that you both adhered to it and even gave options to keep the tree intact is incredibly thoughtful.

As a side-note, I also like how you handled it with Ludwig's notes

May 19, 2024 7:49:09 GMT mkr said:

A new update of the tree (version 15) is now available on the website. Adoptions have been added, as well as clones, and newly found relatives. None of the Baby Looney Tunes and their trees have been added yet. Those can be added with the next update.

I had to make some rearrangements in the tree, in order to put all those new relatives in, as well as to make Pah-Peh-Rheo the progenitor of the McDuck lineage; and Paperon McPaperon a cousin of Quack McDuck. As a result, the order of relatives in the spreadsheet will now at certain points have quite some disagreements with the tree. I usually try to avoid that as much as possible, but in this case my attempt to make the tree a bit more organized without too many crossing lines, made these rearrangements unavoidable.

The following relatives have been added:

• Paperon de’Pigrottin from I TL 1900-A was added as the father of Diamond Lil.
• Horatio Duck (called Horatio McDuck on the tree) from D 6574 was added as a son of Herbert.
• Raleigh McDuck from D 8728 was added as the son of Quackerush.
• Robin Duck from D 8988 was added as an ancestor of Donald (as a brother of Paperino from I TL 1530-B).
• Duckie from I TL 2358-3 was added as a sister of Daisy’s mother.
• Brigitta “Merendolina” from I TL 1737-C was added as an ancestor of Brigitta.
• Three McDuck ancestors shown on portraits in W DD 70-01 were added to fill up some empty spots (two as direct ancestors of Mac Patacon McDuck, and one as the daughter of Braised McDuck.)
• Vigorius McDuck from D 2006-319 was added as a brother of Malcolm’s father.
• Ko from H 2012-194 was added as a son of Arnold Duck.
• Eleanore from H 2013-373 was added as a sister of Daisy’s maternal grandfather.
• Four cousins of Gyro from I CD 537-1 were added. One was named Helmut Gearloose.
• Donald’s Medieval ancestor from I TL 1638-C was added as the father of Robin Duck.
• Francis McDuck from D 7384 was added as a brother of Malcolm. Kilgus Rockerduck from the same story was moved to the same generation.
• Scrooge’s ancestor from I PM 182-1 was added as a brother of Duncan McDuck.
• Schnorri Schnabel from I PM 245-1 was added as a grandson of Arnold Duck.
• Quackarone from I TL 2789-4 was added as the great-grandfather of trisnonna Papera.
• Paperin van der Paper, Paperon van Paperen and Rina van Paper from I TL 3314-5 were added as ancestors via the Dutch branch. Mohican van Paper from S 72267 was moved and is now the father of Rina van Paper.\
• Groempf and Grompf from H 29006 were added as prehistoric ancestors of the ducks. A third unnamed ancestor was added to Gyro’s branch as the son of Archimedek.
• Isaac Carrot from H 2016-040 was added the grandson of Willie Leeghwortel. From the same story were also added Gyro’s ancestors Leonardo da Radice, Toet Ank Gearloose, and Gnoef Peen. Benjamin Carotene was merged with Benjamin Gearloose. The little helpers (Fakkeltje, Vetlampje, Kaarsje, Kandelaartje, Olielampje) were added as “clones” of Gyro’s ancestors.\
• Elvira’s relatives from I G 0717-1 were added as aunt and uncle of Elvira via her mother’s side.
• Jean-Paper Pontière (John-Duck MacBridge) from I SMIT 50-1 was added as Brigitta’s uncle.
• Printer MacBridge from I TL 2709-1 was added as Brigitta’s great-grandfather.
• Herrietta from I TL 2564-1 was added as Brigitta’s aunt.
• Caterina from I TL 2879-5 was added as another aunt of Brigitta. 100 great-great-cousins from the same story were also added.
• Brigitta’s great-grandmother from I TL 2650-3 was also added.
• The descendants from D 2005-070 were added.

• Webbigail/April Vanderquack from DuckTales 2017 was added as the clone of Scrooge. May and June were added as her clones. Bentina Beakley was added as Webby’s adoptive parent. Bentina’s daughter and her son-in-law Vanderquack were also added.
• Little Helper and Mad Ducktor were added as clones of Gyro.
• Ludwig’s clone from House of Mouse was added.
• Many of Fethry’s clones from I TL 3011-2 were added.

• Cosette from I TL 1743-AP was added as the adopted child of Jean Valduck. From the same story were also added her husband Donald D. Pontmercy, their 4 children, Cosette’s adoptive parents Trudy and Tom Thénardier and their 2 children.
• Joey from Daddy Duck was added as the adoptive child of Donald.
• Bubba Duck from DuckTales (original series) was added as the adoptive child of Scrooge.
• The Bassottos family from I TL 1800-AP was added as adoptive parents of Anatruccolos.
• Guinevere from A Twisted Tale: Set in Stone was added as adoptive child of Mim. Leodegrance and Camile were added as Guinevere’s parents. Arthur “Wart” Pendragon was added as husband of Guinevere. Uther Pendragon was added as Arthur’s father. Ector was added as Arthur’s foster father. Kay was added as Ector’s son. Artie was added as Arthur’s son. For time period, they were all put (together with Mad Maddie) in the Early Middle Ages.
• Both Monna Papera and Milone Paperone from I TL 197-AP were added as they adopted Paperin “meschino”.
• Al E. Gator and Sally were added as the adopted parents of Daffy’s child from Quackodile Tears. Their four children (one adopted by Daffy) were also added.
• Danger Duck’s adoptive parents from In the Pinkster were added.
• Adopted lines were also added between Donald and HDL; between Grandma Duck and Donald; between Fethry and Dugan; between the nephews from I AT 299-B and Paperino; between Sandopaper and his three nephews; between Paperino and his three nephews from I TL 1131-A; between Paulinus Paperinius and his three nephews; between Paul McPaperin and his three nephews; and between Paperin de la Scalogna and his three nephews. There are probably some more HDL ancestor look-a-likes that can be considered adopted by Donald ancestor look-a-likes, but I didn't check yet all stories.

• Jacobus Paperus from I TL 1940-C was renamed Jacob Paperus.
• The Lincoln look-a-like ancestor of Daffy was renamed Abraham Lincoln Duck.
• Cornelius from D 99207 is now a McDuck and was moved to become Titus’ brother. He also has a picture now.
• Mortimer from D 92251 was moved and is now a brother of Gustavo.
• Gohard Duck was removed. Butch Duck is now the father of Bridger.
• Daisy’s aunt Gertrude from D 2006-233 was removed (a French translation error).
• The Duckesque relative (the one that lives in the present) from I TL 1603-B and I TL 1973-C was given the first name Vlad.
• Paprog from the Paperut series was removed as he is not related. As a consequence, Marilut also was removed.

Absolutely phenomenal, as always! I wasn't able to comment as I was on holidays, but I got a look at the tree and it's honestly just amazing to me how far we've come with this project.
I can wax lyrical about my love for this community and praise the stellar work that you've put into perfecting this in a later update, as I'm absolutely shattered from the flight home

Side-note, it felt silly so I didn't ask, but I appreciate you using that pic of Webby - I adore it as a stark contrast to the pic of Scrooge on the tree 

Regarding Looney Tunes relatives, mostly good news - I've gotten scans of most of the comic relatives I'm aware of existing. A few people have promised to get back to me with scans of the few I'm missing, so hopefully that happens soon.
The only one I'm struggling with is March of Comics 132, which supposedly refers to Bugs' relative 'Burn-Em-Up Bunny'. I did at least find a scan confirming his existence, just not his name.

I'm currently digging through some other sources to find relatives - I've exhausted a fair few options, but it's inevitable that I'll be missing some. Still, I want it as complete as possible before I post it. I'll start drafting things up now that I have access to my laptop again - I'll primarily focus on that for the moment.
I'll post here once it's ready, it might take a bit longer as I'm not the best with the actual tree-putting-together, but I'll try to get it sorted ASAP

As always, looking forward to keeping this ball rolling!

[danoduck]

Remember Flameheart glomgold? Now we know that he is a " trisavolo " of flintheart
"" 
I also found this relative of glomgold called cuordiroccia (rockheart) in inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+3431-1P
"" 
"" 

[LP]

May 22, 2024 17:50:59 GMT danoduck said:

Remember Flameheart glomgold? Now we know that he is a " trisavolo " of flintheart
"" 
I also found this relative of glomgold called cuordiroccia (rockheart) in inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+3431-1P
"" 
"" 

Those links do not work for me. Is anyone else having similar problems?
At any rate, Google Translate tells me that "trisavolo" means "great-great-grandfather". If taken literally, Flameheart would be the father of Ironheart. That seems implausible, as Flameheart would have lived a few hundred years earlier. We should probably interpret "trisavolo" as "ancestor" instead, and place him as a contemporary to either Malcolm McDuck or his parents in the 1500s.

[LP]

Hi. I've been thinking about Whitewater's parents. I'm glad we've got Mazuma for his father, but we should find a mother for him too. She would not be related to the Duck family by blood, only by marriage, and she would be classified as either one of Scrooge's cousins or one of Donald's distant aunts.

Scrooge doesn't have that many female cousins. Meg from A Trip to Scotland is not a likely candidate, since she last met Scrooge when they were young. This suggests that she is a blood-relative rather than married to his cousin. Another one of Scrooge's female cousins is Dorothy McDuck from Zio Paperone e il mistero sciropposo. Yet another is mentioned in Zio Paperone e l'eredità universale. I'm unfamilar with these two, however. If they are valid candidates, please let me know.

At any rate, the best candidates are probably in the "Donald's distant aunts"-category. One example is Drusilla McSwan from The Big Picture. She has recently passed and Donald inherits a lot of money, indicating that she was rich. This would fit, as the wife of Mazuma Duck would likely be super-wealthy. The lawyers tell us that "Drusilla McSwan was a woman of no small means! She provided for all her relatives! Even the... backdoor variety". This indicates that Donald was not necessarily a direct or close relative but still gets a piece of the pie. This fits with Donald being related to Whitewater's mother by marriage through his first cousin once removed.

I think those are strong points toward Drusilla McSwan being Mazuma's wife. However, there are admittedly points against this placement.
#1) The lawyers refer to her as "Drusilla McSwan", even though this placement would suggest that she was married to Mazuma, meaning that her name should be Drusilla Duck. I guess you could argue that they never married or that she simply kept her maiden name. Alternatively, the lawyers simply referred to her with her maiden name for some reason.
#2) The lawyers refer to Drusilla as Donald's great-aunt. This would make her one generation too old for her to be the mother of Donald's second cousin. This is probably the biggest hurdle. Does anyone have access to the original Danish version? What is Donald's relation to Drusilla in that version?


Anyways, if Drusilla is disqualified, I would like to explore other options. Below is a list of other aunts of Donald whom I know next to nothing about.

• Tryntsje Duckma from Waakhond
• Kliek from De Kliekjeskoning
• Aldufrida from The Gloomstone
• An unnamed aunt from Pratende papegaai
• Marthe from Presents From Far-away Places
• Grattugia Ock from Paperino e il segreto di

What do we know about these aunts? Could any of them be Whitewater's mother and Mazuma Duck's wife?

(Aunt Evelyn from Paperino e l'erede gatto is disqualified since Donald is described as her sole relative, which wouldn't make sense if she were Whitewater's mother.)

[alquackskey]

May 22, 2024 17:50:59 GMT danoduck said:

Remember Flameheart glomgold? Now we know that he is a " trisavolo " of flintheart
"" 
I also found this relative of glomgold called cuordiroccia (rockheart) in inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+3431-1P
"" 
"" 

As LP notes, I also can't access these - the links are broken and just lead back to this post.

May 24, 2024 12:35:55 GMT LP said:

Hi. I've been thinking about Whitewater's parents. I'm glad we've got Mazuma for his father, but we should find a mother for him too. She would not be related to the Duck family by blood, only by marriage, and she would be classified as either one of Scrooge's cousins or one of Donald's distant aunts.

Scrooge doesn't have that many female cousins. Meg from A Trip to Scotland is not a likely candidate, since she last met Scrooge when they were young. This suggests that she is a blood-relative rather than married to his cousin. Another one of Scrooge's female cousins is Dorothy McDuck from Zio Paperone e il mistero sciropposo. Yet another is mentioned in Zio Paperone e l'eredità universale. I'm unfamilar with these two, however. If they are valid candidates, please let me know.

At any rate, the best candidates are probably in the "Donald's distant aunts"-category. One example is Drusilla McSwan from The Big Picture. She has recently passed and Donald inherits a lot of money, indicating that she was rich. This would fit, as the wife of Mazuma Duck would likely be super-wealthy. The lawyers tell us that "Drusilla McSwan was a woman of no small means! She provided for all her relatives! Even the... backdoor variety". This indicates that Donald was not necessarily a direct or close relative but still gets a piece of the pie. This fits with Donald being related to Whitewater's mother by marriage through his first cousin once removed.

I think those are strong points toward Drusilla McSwan being Mazuma's wife. However, there are admittedly points against this placement.
#1) The lawyers refer to her as "Drusilla McSwan", even though this placement would suggest that she was married to Mazuma, meaning that her name should be Drusilla Duck. I guess you could argue that they never married or that she simply kept her maiden name. Alternatively, the lawyers simply referred to her with her maiden name for some reason.
#2) The lawyers refer to Drusilla as Donald's great-aunt. This would make her one generation too old for her to be the mother of Donald's second cousin. This is probably the biggest hurdle. Does anyone have access to the original Danish version? What is Donald's relation to Drusilla in that version?


Anyways, if Drusilla is disqualified, I would like to explore other options. Below is a list of other aunts of Donald whom I know next to nothing about.

• Tryntsje Duckma from Waakhond
• Kliek from De Kliekjeskoning
• Aldufrida from The Gloomstone
• An unnamed aunt from Pratende papegaai
• Marthe from Presents From Far-away Places
• Grattugia Ock from Paperino e il segreto di

What do we know about these aunts? Could any of them be Whitewater's mother and Mazuma Duck's wife?

(Aunt Evelyn from Paperino e l'erede gatto is disqualified since Donald is described as her sole relative, which wouldn't make sense if she were Whitewater's mother.)

Interesting point of discussion - here's what I can add:
From the Brazilian version of I TL 1886-A, Dorothy McDuck (Doroteia MacPato) is a factory owner in Scotland, near the Loch Ness. Scrooge sends Donald and Fethry (Along with Biquinho) to find her. Donald and Fethry, pretending to be nobles (Well, Donald is a count, Fethry is his butler and Biquinho is Fethry's son), arrive at her castle. There, they run into Cintia, who introduces herself as Doroteia's niece.
Once they're at the castle, they meet 'Lady Doroteia', a dogface who invites them to stay at the castle.
Later, Cintia introduces Donald to the director of the malt factory (This factory is why Scrooge sent Donald over).
Later still, Donald is talking with Cintia, asking if she ever gets tired of the castle. Cintia explains that she does, but since her aunt returned from a trip to Patifornia about a month ago, she has to take care of her. She had left before Cintia was born, and came back to help her with the factory.
In a truly shocking turn of events, the dogface isn't actually Lady Doroteia - she and the director are in cahoots; both are fakers. Donald and Fethry later find the real director.
We find out that the fake director is Roni, a secretary of Rockerduck. As for Lady Doroteia... none other than Rockerduck himself.
Lady Doroteia is in contact with Scrooge, and had never left Patifornia. However, Scrooge also finds out and confirms to Donald that Rockerduck bought her castle.
So, what we know of Doroteia is that she's still alive, has never met her niece, lives in Patifornia, is a member of the Clan McDuck in some capacity and is most likely a dogface. The reason I say that is because Roni's disguise as the director is spot-on, so I'd imagine the one for Doroteia is probably the same.
As such, I'd likely rule her out.

Regarding I TL 366-B, Scrooge didn't know prior to her death that Ethelbertha existed - the fact that she leaves everything to Scrooge doesn't rule her out as a candidate, but it seems odd that neither Mazuma nor Tom, Drake and Harry would get a penny from her.
Maybe she had a bad divorce with Mazuma and reverted to her maiden name? Even then, it seems odd that she left nothing to her sons, so I'd rule her out.

Drusilla makes sense as a candidate, though the great-aunt point is definitely one of contention, unless we get our hands on the original version.

Tryntsje Duckma is also referred to as a great-aunt, presumably disqualifying her too.

Regarding Aldufrida, I believe she's supposed to be a Duck by blood - she's Aldufrida And in Danish.
I have the Brazilian version of her story, and not much is said; she owned a black diamond, which makes its owner miserable and causes bad things to happen to them. It had a long list of owners, and she has dumped it on Donald.
She's not infeasible - you could say that Mazuma picked it up on his travels, and they passed it around until they got to Donald.

From what I know of S 75121, Marthe is also unlikely - Donald notes that she's from (or at least living in) Australia. It's not inconceivable that she moved or something, but seeing as Mazuma and co live in Duckistan and are massively wealthy, it seems like a bit of a stretch.

I haven't got much on Grattugia (Though I'll note 'Ock' isn't her surname in-story), just that she's a distant relative who left Donald a farm. Not infeasible, but I'd imagine she was taking care of the farm (Not in Duckistan) until her death.

I have no info on Kliek or the aunt from H 86130.


As a side-note on the Looney Tunes stuff, I found out I had been missing a fair few relatives - I don't know how it happened. I dug again, much more thoroughly this time - I'd imagine I've gotten all of the major ones from the comics, though I can't say that for certain.
Now it's just down to constructing the actual trees, which may take a while - however, in the meantime, there are two notes regarding them that I'd like to bring up.

One is Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers - a short in which some strange alien carrots appear. Bugs goes about his day as normal, dealing with Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam and Daffy. Each comes into contact with an alien carrot.
The next day, they're replaced with bizarre facsimiles of themselves - they all want Bugs to take one of the carrots home, which he eventually does.
The carrot tears open, and a goopy substance rapidly grows into a Bugs facsimile.
However, as the short continues, Bugs refers to them as robots, complete with the Sam facsimile making clanks and noises like a robot.
The reason I bring this up is because, as far as I can see, they should be considered clones, and they're blatantly formed organically. It also appears that they take on the form of whoever picked up the carrot. Whether or not this is enough to qualify is up to you. If you do agree with their inclusion, I'll prep Bugs and Porky's clones for my own tree, but in the meantime, here's a shot of Daffy's:


The second point, and I cannot believe I'm bringing him up... is Big Chungus.
Big Chungus is known from an internet meme referencing 'Wabbit Twouble', in which Bugs mimics Elmer Fudd by making himself overweight.
He also technically appears in Space Jam: A New Legacy - allegedly, the reference to the original short was made without the people involved actually being aware of the meme.
The reason I bring him up is because of Looney Tunes: World of Mayhem, a mobile game.
In this, Big Chungus is his own character - not just a Bugs skin, but his own character with his own skins.
The reason I bring him up is because that's the only official appearance in which he's classified as a separate character from Bugs - there's no lore reason behind his appearance, between the blog posts and character descriptions.
So, it begs the question - should he be counted as a clone? It's very clearly intended to refer to Wabbit Twouble - not just because of his appearance, but he gives the same quote that he had in that short (That'll hold 'im awwight! Heheheheh!)
However, unlike the other clones, we don't see him being 'created', for lack of a better word. He is a separate character from Bugs, and clearly hearkens back to what was Bugs doing a costume bit, but whether or not that's enough to justify him as a clone is debatable.

Not gonna lie, the idea of Big Chungus being on the tree is honestly amazing to me, but at the same time, I understand the evidence is pretty circumstantial.

[mkr]

May 24, 2024 12:35:55 GMT LP said:

Anyways, if Drusilla is disqualified, I would like to explore other options. Below is a list of other aunts of Donald whom I know next to nothing about.

• Tryntsje Duckma from Waakhond
• Kliek from De Kliekjeskoning
• Aldufrida from The Gloomstone
• An unnamed aunt from Pratende papegaai
• Marthe from Presents From Far-away Places
• Grattugia Ock from Paperino e il segreto di

What do we know about these aunts? Could any of them be Whitewater's mother and Mazuma Duck's wife?

The unnamed aunt from H 86130 is, in the original Dutch version, said to be an "achter-oudtante" of both Donald and Gladstone. An "achter-oudtante" is actually a first cousin twice removed (a first cousin of a grandparent). Which means that she is currently not correctly placed on the tree, but it also means that she cannot be Whitewater's mother. 

So, I don't know who would be a good fit. Tryntsje (Donald's great-aunt), Marthe (better fitting as wife of Dinkum and mother of Dali, since they are also from Australia) and Dorothy are not good fits, as discussed by Alquakskey. For Aldufrida, I don't have the Danish version, but in the German translation she is Donald's great-aunt. So, maybe Grattugia is then the only option that is not infeasibile (though also not ideal). Or maybe Kliek, but I don't have access to that story.

May 24, 2024 15:26:16 GMT alquackskey said:

One is Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers - a short in which some strange alien carrots appear. Bugs goes about his day as normal, dealing with Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam and Daffy. Each comes into contact with an alien carrot.
The next day, they're replaced with bizarre facsimiles of themselves - they all want Bugs to take one of the carrots home, which he eventually does.
The carrot tears open, and a goopy substance rapidly grows into a Bugs facsimile.
However, as the short continues, Bugs refers to them as robots, complete with the Sam facsimile making clanks and noises like a robot.
The reason I bring this up is because, as far as I can see, they should be considered clones, and they're blatantly formed organically. It also appears that they take on the form of whoever picked up the carrot. Whether or not this is enough to qualify is up to you. 

I agree that they should be considered clones.

May 24, 2024 15:26:16 GMT alquackskey said:

The second point, and I cannot believe I'm bringing him up... is Big Chungus.
Big Chungus is known from an internet meme referencing 'Wabbit Twouble', in which Bugs mimics Elmer Fudd by making himself overweight.
He also technically appears in Space Jam: A New Legacy - allegedly, the reference to the original short was made without the people involved actually being aware of the meme.
The reason I bring him up is because of Looney Tunes: World of Mayhem, a mobile game.
In this, Big Chungus is his own character - not just a Bugs skin, but his own character with his own skins.
The reason I bring him up is because that's the only official appearance in which he's classified as a separate character from Bugs - there's no lore reason behind his appearance, between the blog posts and character descriptions.
So, it begs the question - should he be counted as a clone? It's very clearly intended to refer to Wabbit Twouble - not just because of his appearance, but he gives the same quote that he had in that short (That'll hold 'im awwight! Heheheheh!)
However, unlike the other clones, we don't see him being 'created', for lack of a better word. He is a separate character from Bugs, and clearly hearkens back to what was Bugs doing a costume bit, but whether or not that's enough to justify him as a clone is debatable.

Not gonna lie, the idea of Big Chungus being on the tree is honestly amazing to me, but at the same time, I understand the evidence is pretty circumstantial.

About this one, I am less sure that he should be considered. My first idea is that it is all too circumstantial, lacking real evidence that he is a clone of Bugs. 

[alquackskey]

May 24, 2024 17:39:08 GMT mkr said:

May 24, 2024 15:26:16 GMT alquackskey said:

One is Invasion of the Bunny Snatchers - a short in which some strange alien carrots appear. Bugs goes about his day as normal, dealing with Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam and Daffy. Each comes into contact with an alien carrot.
The next day, they're replaced with bizarre facsimiles of themselves - they all want Bugs to take one of the carrots home, which he eventually does.
The carrot tears open, and a goopy substance rapidly grows into a Bugs facsimile.
However, as the short continues, Bugs refers to them as robots, complete with the Sam facsimile making clanks and noises like a robot.
The reason I bring this up is because, as far as I can see, they should be considered clones, and they're blatantly formed organically. It also appears that they take on the form of whoever picked up the carrot. Whether or not this is enough to qualify is up to you. 

I agree that they should be considered clones.

May 24, 2024 15:26:16 GMT alquackskey said:

The second point, and I cannot believe I'm bringing him up... is Big Chungus.
Big Chungus is known from an internet meme referencing 'Wabbit Twouble', in which Bugs mimics Elmer Fudd by making himself overweight.
He also technically appears in Space Jam: A New Legacy - allegedly, the reference to the original short was made without the people involved actually being aware of the meme.
The reason I bring him up is because of Looney Tunes: World of Mayhem, a mobile game.
In this, Big Chungus is his own character - not just a Bugs skin, but his own character with his own skins.
The reason I bring him up is because that's the only official appearance in which he's classified as a separate character from Bugs - there's no lore reason behind his appearance, between the blog posts and character descriptions.
So, it begs the question - should he be counted as a clone? It's very clearly intended to refer to Wabbit Twouble - not just because of his appearance, but he gives the same quote that he had in that short (That'll hold 'im awwight! Heheheheh!)
However, unlike the other clones, we don't see him being 'created', for lack of a better word. He is a separate character from Bugs, and clearly hearkens back to what was Bugs doing a costume bit, but whether or not that's enough to justify him as a clone is debatable.

Not gonna lie, the idea of Big Chungus being on the tree is honestly amazing to me, but at the same time, I understand the evidence is pretty circumstantial.

About this one, I am less sure that he should be considered. My first idea is that it is all too circumstantial, lacking real evidence that he is a clone of Bugs. 

Excellent - when I'm prepping the Bugs and Porky trees, I'll include them

As for Big Chungus, it's a bit of an odd one; I've been trying here and there to get into contact with the developers of World of Mayhem to see if I can get an answer, though I've been tracking down multiple sources, so that one fell to the backburner a bit.
I can agree, though, that the evidence is circumstantial - if I get any word back from the developers, I'll let it be known

[LP]

May 24, 2024 17:39:08 GMT mkr said:

The unnamed aunt from H 86130 is, in the original Dutch version, said to be an "achter-oudtante" of both Donald and Gladstone. An "achter-oudtante" is actually a first cousin twice removed (a first cousin of a grandparent). Which means that she is currently not correctly placed on the tree, but it also means that she cannot be Whitewater's mother. 

So, I don't know who would be a good fit. Tryntsje (Donald's great-aunt), Marthe (better fitting as wife of Dinkum and mother of Dali, since they are also from Australia) and Dorothy are not good fits, as discussed by Alquakskey. For Aldufrida, I don't have the Danish version, but in the German translation she is Donald's great-aunt. So, maybe Grattugia is then the only option that is not infeasibile (though also not ideal). Or maybe Kliek, but I don't have access to that story. 

I was starting to lean towards Aldufrida, since she gives away a diamond. Mazuma has decorated his hat with diamonds, so I assume he got rich in the diamond business. Therefore, it would make sense that his wife has access to them as well.

Anyways, I'll try to get my hands on the Swedish version of the story. It's not the Danish original, but at least it's close. alquackskey, you mentioned Aldufrida's Danish name. Do you have access to the Danish version of her story? If so, is she described as an aunt or great-aunt?

[alquackskey]

May 24, 2024 21:25:47 GMT LP said:

May 24, 2024 17:39:08 GMT mkr said:

The unnamed aunt from H 86130 is, in the original Dutch version, said to be an "achter-oudtante" of both Donald and Gladstone. An "achter-oudtante" is actually a first cousin twice removed (a first cousin of a grandparent). Which means that she is currently not correctly placed on the tree, but it also means that she cannot be Whitewater's mother. 

So, I don't know who would be a good fit. Tryntsje (Donald's great-aunt), Marthe (better fitting as wife of Dinkum and mother of Dali, since they are also from Australia) and Dorothy are not good fits, as discussed by Alquakskey. For Aldufrida, I don't have the Danish version, but in the German translation she is Donald's great-aunt. So, maybe Grattugia is then the only option that is not infeasibile (though also not ideal). Or maybe Kliek, but I don't have access to that story. 

I was starting to lean towards Aldufrida, since she gives away a diamond. Mazuma has decorated his hat with diamonds, so I assume he got rich in the diamond business. Therefore, it would make sense that his wife has access to them as well.

Anyways, I'll try to get my hands on the Swedish version of the story. It's not the Danish original, but at least it's close. alquackskey , you mentioned Aldufrida's Danish name. Do you have access to the Danish version of her story? If so, is she described as an aunt or great-aunt?

I don't own the story itself, but I have a scan of the first page, which is where Aldufrida is mentioned.
She's noted as a great aunt in that one:

[Ramapith]

May 24, 2024 12:35:55 GMT LP said:

Anyways, if Drusilla is disqualified, I would like to explore other options. Below is a list of other aunts of Donald whom I know next to nothing about.

• Tryntsje Duckma from Waakhond
• Kliek from De Kliekjeskoning
• Aldufrida from The Gloomstone
• An unnamed aunt from Pratende papegaai
• Marthe from Presents From Far-away Places
• Grattugia Ock from Paperino e il segreto di

What do we know about these aunts?

I've seen the original (Egmont) English version of this story, and "Aldufrida" is Donald's great-aunt Mehitabel Duck. In the story, she is not seen, but sends him a cursed jewel to get it off her hands, simply because she's a cranky person who considers Donald a dimwitted good-for-nothing.

The story treats Donald's receipt of the jewel as if he's inheriting it; he receives it with a letter from Mehitabel, but there's no sign she's dead or incapacitated, just looking to unload her jinx. It is mentioned that the gem had other owners before her, all of whom were also hit by the jinx.

(Tex Avery type of situation: in practice, when you're holding the gem, slapstick accidents happen to you repeatedly. In a very funny scenario, Donald and Gladstone try to use Gladstone's luck to neutralize the gem's effects.)

[LP]

I found the Kliek- and Grattugia-stories in their original languages online. I used Google Translate to translate the bits and pieces of them that seem relevant.

Aunt Kliek is the author of a cookbook that HDL use. I contains recipes for food which use mainly leftovers for ingredients. I guess she technically could work as Whitewater's mother/Mazuma's wife, although she has nothing to do with either of them thematically.

Grattugia is described as a distant relative to Donald, yet he is named as her "universal heir"... I'm not sure what "universal" is supposed to mean here. At any rate Donald inherits a dilapidated farm which holds a secret cache of gold underground. It seems like Scrooge is familiar with Grattugia, and for some reason he keeps an old document about Grattugia's secret cache in his Money Bin library. Therefore, I'm going to assume that Grattugia is from the same side of Donald's family as Scrooge.
Her being rich and a distant relative via Scrooge seems to fit with her placement as Mazuma's husband. However, the farm is said to be located close to Duckburg, even though Mazuma seems to live in South Afduckistan. Then there's the fact that Donald was named "universal heir". I guess this means that he was the sole heir, which does not mesh too well with Whitewater (and possibly Mazuma) being alive. Finally, nobody is aware of Grattugia's riches - not even Scrooge, which would be weird if she were Mazuma's wife.

I think Grattugia should be eliminated as a candidate. This seems to leave us with Kliek as the best candidate... which isn't too exciting... She doesn't fit the best - she simply fits the least worst.

[LP]

Lately I've been thinking a bit about Rosa's 1993 family tree, the one that started it all. A thought struck me: Prior to Rosa's tree, was there any story actually confirming that Donald got the surname "Duck" from his father?

Donald tells us in Barks' Race to the South Seas that his mother was a McDuck. According to The Hunting Instinct (the Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color episode), Donald's father was a Von Drake (or just Drake). And in WDC 121 we learn that Grandma Duck's maiden name was Duck. 
Then there is apparently some animated program from the 1950s wherein Donald is said to have taken his mother's maiden name rather than his father's surname. Obviously, this clashes with everything above, but at least there is precedence for Donald's surname not coming from his father.

So maybe Rosa was wrong to assume Donald's father was a "Duck". I know Rosa only took stories by Barks into account, but if one were to aim for compatibility with every published material before 1993, it would seem like the name "Duck" originated with Donald's Grandma rather than his father. Obviously, Donald has had numerous cousins named Duck over the years, but these could all have descended from one of Grandma's siblings. Also, in this scenario, Grandma Duck would be the mother of either Scrooge or Ludwig.

This was only a random thought that struck me. I in no way intend for this to have any impact on our ultimate family tree project.