EDIT: And here's a treat - on a whim I Googled the original Danish title of the story featuring Dali Duck, the boxer (sporting a big, well, Dali-esque mustache) and found a much better picture of him, including what I assume is his original name!
Very interesting, but I don't think it is the original name though. This seems to be a scan of the 1974 Danish publication, but I don't think the story was originally written in Danish. Here is a scan of the 2020 Danish publication, in which he has a different name actually ("Andy Granithandske", instead of "Andus Den Dristige"). This publication also gives us the name of the translator of the story into Danish, which wouldn't be necessary if the original was already in Danish (it's probably English).
We can of course change his name to one of his Danish names (Dali Duck is probably also not original, it is just the name obtained from the German translation), but just be aware that it is also not original. His portrait can of course be changed to a higher resolution one.
EDIT: And here's a treat - on a whim I Googled the original Danish title of the story featuring Dali Duck, the boxer (sporting a big, well, Dali-esque mustache) and found a much better picture of him, including what I assume is his original name!
Very interesting, but I don't think it is the original name though. This seems to be a scan of the 1974 Danish publication, but I don't think the story was originally written in Danish. Here is a scan of the 2020 Danish publication, in which he has a different name actually ("Andy Granithandske", instead of "Andus Den Dristige"). This publication also gives us the name of the translator of the story into Danish, which wouldn't be necessary if the original was already in Danish (it's probably English).
We can of course change his name to one of his Danish names (Dali Duck is probably also not original, it is just the name obtained from the German translation), but just be aware that it is also not original. His portrait can of course be changed to a higher resolution one.
Interesting! Then the Inducks is mistaken that the story originated in Denmark? That's what I was going by.
Very interesting, but I don't think it is the original name though. This seems to be a scan of the 1974 Danish publication, but I don't think the story was originally written in Danish. Here is a scan of the 2020 Danish publication, in which he has a different name actually ("Andy Granithandske", instead of "Andus Den Dristige"). This publication also gives us the name of the translator of the story into Danish, which wouldn't be necessary if the original was already in Danish (it's probably English).
We can of course change his name to one of his Danish names (Dali Duck is probably also not original, it is just the name obtained from the German translation), but just be aware that it is also not original. His portrait can of course be changed to a higher resolution one.
Interesting! Then the Inducks is mistaken that the story originated in Denmark? That's what I was going by.
This was discussed previously, I was making the same mistake
For stories that are coded to 'Denmark' or 'Foreign Market Stories' (So S or D coded), it's often the case that, while they were commissioned in a specific country, that doesn't mean that the original script was written in that language. Many of the stories are written in English, or regarding Foreign Market Stories, other languages, usually based around who the author is.
In some cases, we're lucky enough to be able to get confirmation on their names in the original scripts (Almost always thanks to Ramapith) but, in most cases, we don't actually know what the original name would have been
Also, separate note, three more books arrived today - I'll do a write-up when I get the chance
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I MG 459-A arrived today - and, as expected, it contains more relatives. Thankfully they're all ducks this time.
The premise, like most 'La Lezioni di Pico' stories, is fairly simple - the boys are wondering about what great professions their ancestors had, so Donald just says that they'll visit Ludwig and ask him. When talking with Ludwig, one of the boys mentions that they want to know about a genius, like Isaac Newton. Ludwig is annoyed by the example, and says it reminds him of 'one of our ancestors' (He says this about most ancestors in these series).
Donald is disgusted, and thinks that the story just shows that his ancestors are incompetent. Ludwig, in response, tells him a different story - one set in Paris, at the end of the last century (So the late 1800s). It stars the 'Cugini Paperiere' - Jean Paperiere, a Fethry expy, and Louis Paperiere, a Donald expy.
Is the story also implying these French relatives are ancestors of Ludwig??? If these cousins live in the late 1800s and maybe are around 30 years old, they are basically of the same generation as Ludwig or at most one generation older...
I MG 459-A arrived today - and, as expected, it contains more relatives. Thankfully they're all ducks this time.
The premise, like most 'La Lezioni di Pico' stories, is fairly simple - the boys are wondering about what great professions their ancestors had, so Donald just says that they'll visit Ludwig and ask him. When talking with Ludwig, one of the boys mentions that they want to know about a genius, like Isaac Newton. Ludwig is annoyed by the example, and says it reminds him of 'one of our ancestors' (He says this about most ancestors in these series).
Donald is disgusted, and thinks that the story just shows that his ancestors are incompetent. Ludwig, in response, tells him a different story - one set in Paris, at the end of the last century (So the late 1800s). It stars the 'Cugini Paperiere' - Jean Paperiere, a Fethry expy, and Louis Paperiere, a Donald expy.
Is the story also implying these French relatives are ancestors of Ludwig??? If these cousins live in the late 1800s and maybe are around 30 years old, they are basically of the same generation as Ludwig or at most one generation older...
For clarity, the only actual note of relation to Ludwig is that he refers to them as 'our ancestors'. You could probably disregard it as him just looking at the family as a whole including marriage, imo - either that, or some authors treating Ludwig as a blood relative.
He does, specifically, refer to Jean and Louis as 'our ancestors' ["Cinema, for example, was born from a brilliant intuition of some of our ancestors!"] but he never clarifies the relation beyond that.
He says 'our ancestors' in a lot of 'Le Lezione di Pico' stories - considering, in these stories, he's known to be an expert on genealogy, you could probably just disregard it as basically referring to anyone on the tree, be it through marriage or blood.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Secondary, more minor note, I got S 67019. 'Old Ebeneeza' is 'Ebenezer Mac Paper' in Italian. In the story, he's Scrooge's bis-bis-bis-biszio (Great-great-great-greatuncle) who arrived at Duckburg in 1782. Obviously, this isn't the original script - and, as we've seen, some reprints change details like years or relations. Dunno if you'd want to change his current placement as a result, but worth being aware of
Also the Dutch translation says that he (called Knijpstuiver Duck) is a great-great-great-greatuncle of Scrooge. It mentions also the same year (1782). It is said that this is the year when he founded Duckburg. Given the similarities in the Dutch and Italian versions, it is likely that also in the original script he is a g-g-g-greatuncle of Scrooge (and be in Duckburg in 1782). So we could move him a generation older in our tree to follow that, and thus make him a (younger) brother of Hugh Seafoam McDuck, who was born in 1710.
The only thing against that is if you want to make it in line with the foundation of Duckburg by Cornelius Coot in 1818, which is 36 years after 1782, so about one generation, and thus maybe the reason for his current position in the tree.
So, as mentioned earlier, three books arrived today - and each one has some new info:
I'll start with 'Topostorie 42: Alberi... di Famiglia' Much like Topostorie 13, this one collects a group of stories and adds a framing device. In this book, we see everyone leaving Duckburg Stadium after a sports game between Duckburg and Mouseton (Which ended in a draw). After a discussion/argument, Gladstone remarks that mediocrity is in Donald's DNA, and it was also in that of his ancestors since the dawn of time (...Jesus man, that's a little far) This leads to them discussing ancestors; I won't go into much outside of what's relevant, as a lot of them are already on the tree.
The first is 'a French noble' - Paperin de Canard, who is already on the tree. (D 2000-086)
At the end of that story, they hear a plane overhead, and Gladstone remarks that Donald has never had a good pilot in his ancestry. Daisy comments that Donald hasn't, but she has. Here is where the bad news for this one lies: Gyro walks by and joins the conversation, and Daisy explains that his ancestor played a part in that flight. This leads into I TL 2050-3. The Daisy O'Fly story.
A few notes on it: For one, I don't actually see any point in the story where Archie is referred to as a relative of the O'Flys. He's introduced as being one of Paperone's technicians (The other being Paperino), but he's never referred to with a surname, nor does anyone call him cousin, nephew etc. 'Mister Avion' also says "You say that your inventor Archie has already built a biplane?" - note that, apparently, Paperone referred to him as his inventor, not his nephew. Maybe this version was slightly edited in comparison with the original, but in this version, Archie is never referred to as a relative once. Once the story is finished, Gyro once more refers to Archie as 'my ancestor'.
It's possible that this version was slightly edited, though I don't imagine that to be too likely.
At any rate, Ludwig appears following that story, and that leads into one set in Ancient Greece, so I'll skip over it for now. They then notice a mysterious stranger watching them and listening to the stories - so Daisy starts loudly telling another one, also set in Ancient Greece, so I'll skip it for now.
Next up, we move on to I AT 308-B. I'm not sure if the original intent was for them to be related here - in fact, it doesn't really seem that way from my reading. It seems like the boys are reading about a famous classic comedy author, and Donald goes to Ludwig to ask about him because he feels stupid for not knowing who it is. Ludwig keeps referring to him as 'Il nostro', which seems really strange to me, but I'm guessing it's a shorthand way of saying 'One of our own' or something? Either way, the framing story refers to a famous ancestor of Donald's, so we'll have to assume as much.
The story is about Paperin di Paperinière, a Donald expy. There's one point where he's referred to as Paperino, but it seems like either the story is edited from the original or this was a mistake, as he's otherwise pretty much always referred to as Paperin. The story is set in France at the time of Louis XIV.
Now, you may find this one hard to believe, given how unlike other stories it is, but Paperin has three unnamed nephews who are expies of Huey, Dewey and Louie.
(The second page there is the one I felt had the best scans of Paperin)
Paperin's love interest is Paperine, a Daisy expy - as with many of these stories, she and Paperin end up together. It's not totally confirmed that they marry, but at the end, it's said that Paperin was left with his glory and the heart of Paperine, so I'd say it's a safe enough bet.
Paperine's uncle is Arpagon de'Paperoni, a Scrooge expy.
(He's already pictured in the pages with Paperin, but I thought it would be best to also provide some images of him in his main outfit)
There are also expies of Brigitta and Gladstone, but neither are relatives or spouses - the Gladstone expy, Gaston Fortunelle, was engaged to Paperine, but the wedding never went ahead. The Brigitta expy is in love with Arpagon, but nothing really comes of it in the end - certainly not marriage, anyways.
The story ends, and Fethry joins in the fun - he starts to tell a story 'handed down from son to father... or was it cousin to uncle? Or..." The story he tells is about a viking, so I'd imagine that's not in the correct time range - I can tell it regardless if it becomes relevant
Next up, Donald has another story to tell - note that Gladstone denies being related here, but that becomes relevant later. The story is S76167, so I'll skip over it.
Who shows up next? Mickey Mouse - everyone's getting in on the fun. He starts to tell a story about a pirate ancestor of his, but since that's irrelevant to this tree, I'll gloss over it.
Finally, to close the frame story, Mickey reveals that the mysterious stranger is none other than Scrooge, who Mickey saw going into the park. Scrooge, having been caught, reveals what he was doing: getting admissions of guilt from everyone. He explains that their ancestors all owed his ancestors money, and that they have to pay him.
He mentions that Paperin de Canard owed money to his ancestor, Papéron Dumaton.
He runs through everyone's ancestors - this is why Gladstone denied being related to anyone earlier. Unfortunately, Scrooge says that Gladstone is indebted to him, so he's not off the hook.
This leaves Mickey, thankful that it's nothing to do with him - which Scrooge also shuts down. He informs Mickey that his pirate ancestor sank one of the ships of 'Lo Scozzese Volante', known to us as Danblane McDuck.
The story ends with everyone running from an angry, money-hungry Scrooge in one of the most hilarious endings to a Disney book I've read.
I'll come back when I can with info on the other books - that's enough for one post
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
So, as mentioned earlier, three books arrived today - and each one has some new info:
I'll start with 'Topostorie 42: Alberi... di Famiglia' Much like Topostorie 13, this one collects a group of stories and adds a framing device. In this book, we see everyone leaving Duckburg Stadium after a sports game between Duckburg and Mouseton (Which ended in a draw). After a discussion/argument, Gladstone remarks that mediocrity is in Donald's DNA, and it was also in that of his ancestors since the dawn of time (...Jesus man, that's a little far) This leads to them discussing ancestors; I won't go into much outside of what's relevant, as a lot of them are already on the tree.
The first is 'a French noble' - Paperin de Canard, who is already on the tree. (D 2000-086)
At the end of that story, they hear a plane overhead, and Gladstone remarks that Donald has never had a good pilot in his ancestry. Daisy comments that Donald hasn't, but she has. Here is where the bad news for this one lies: Gyro walks by and joins the conversation, and Daisy explains that his ancestor played a part in that flight. This leads into I TL 2050-3. The Daisy O'Fly story.
A few notes on it: For one, I don't actually see any point in the story where Archie is referred to as a relative of the O'Flys. He's introduced as being one of Paperone's technicians (The other being Paperino), but he's never referred to with a surname, nor does anyone call him cousin, nephew etc.
Thanks again for uploading a lot of new information. Very interesting. With regard to Archie, he was made a cousin of Paperina O'Fly because Archie's full name is stated to be Archie O'Fly. You can see a scan of Archie being called Archie O'Fly in the last panel shown in this blog post. Was the text in that panel changed for Topostorie 42?
So, as mentioned earlier, three books arrived today - and each one has some new info:
I'll start with 'Topostorie 42: Alberi... di Famiglia' Much like Topostorie 13, this one collects a group of stories and adds a framing device. In this book, we see everyone leaving Duckburg Stadium after a sports game between Duckburg and Mouseton (Which ended in a draw). After a discussion/argument, Gladstone remarks that mediocrity is in Donald's DNA, and it was also in that of his ancestors since the dawn of time (...Jesus man, that's a little far) This leads to them discussing ancestors; I won't go into much outside of what's relevant, as a lot of them are already on the tree.
The first is 'a French noble' - Paperin de Canard, who is already on the tree. (D 2000-086)
At the end of that story, they hear a plane overhead, and Gladstone remarks that Donald has never had a good pilot in his ancestry. Daisy comments that Donald hasn't, but she has. Here is where the bad news for this one lies: Gyro walks by and joins the conversation, and Daisy explains that his ancestor played a part in that flight. This leads into I TL 2050-3. The Daisy O'Fly story.
A few notes on it: For one, I don't actually see any point in the story where Archie is referred to as a relative of the O'Flys. He's introduced as being one of Paperone's technicians (The other being Paperino), but he's never referred to with a surname, nor does anyone call him cousin, nephew etc.
Thanks again for uploading a lot of new information. Very interesting. With regard to Archie, he was made a cousin of Paperina O'Fly because Archie's full name is stated to be Archie O'Fly. You can see a scan of Archie being called Archie O'Fly in the last panel shown in this blog post. Was the text in that panel changed for Topostorie 42?
No worries! I can confirm it was changed in Topostorie 42 - he's just referred to as Archie
(Apologies for the low quality, just took a quick picture on my phone)
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Thanks again for uploading a lot of new information. Very interesting. With regard to Archie, he was made a cousin of Paperina O'Fly because Archie's full name is stated to be Archie O'Fly. You can see a scan of Archie being called Archie O'Fly in the last panel shown in this blog post. Was the text in that panel changed for Topostorie 42?
No worries! I can confirm it was changed in Topostorie 42 - he's just referred to as Archie
Ah, so two different Italian versions, that doesn't make it easier if different publications give different family connections, this cannot even be called a translation error... Anyway, Topostorie 42 was published later, so we can still keep Archie O'Fly as a cousin of Paperina O'Fly, I think, based on the original version. And then Gyro and his relatives can thus be connected to Archie based on the frame story. That seems to bring it back as it was in one of the earliest version of the tree posted by LP.
At least it gives a slightly better way of how Gyro is related to the Duck family, instead of the bit arbitrary connection via Gretchen Grebe that we have now.
No worries! I can confirm it was changed in Topostorie 42 - he's just referred to as Archie
Ah, so two different Italian versions, that doesn't make it easier if different publications give different family connections, this cannot even be called a translation error... Anyway, Topostorie 42 was published later, so we can still keep Archie O'Fly as a cousin of Paperina O'Fly, I think, based on the original version. And then Gyro and his relatives can thus be connected to Archie based on the frame story. That seems to bring it back as it was in one of the earliest version of the tree posted by LP.
At least it gives a slightly better way of how Gyro is related to the Duck family, instead of the bit arbitrary connection via Gretchen Grebe that we have now.
I agree with this interpretation; the two aren't necessarily contradictory after all
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I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Another update - didn't get around to it yesterday, so here they are now:
I had noted before that I PM 273-1 had a relative in it, so when picking up other books, I grabbed this one too - and indeed, the book I got showcases relatives from this story. (Unrelated note, but it also contains the Angus McHaggis story, which was a nice unexpected bonus )
So, I PM 273-1 is, as I understand, part of a spinoff series of the 'Storia e Gloria della Dinastia dei Paperi' series - Paperin Cannoniere is from the same set of stories.
So, one of the first pages shows off a heap of ancestors (Not sure which are new and which are supposed to be part of other stories off-hand) As well as that, we see a few portraits - I know portraits are typically ignored, but since they're directly confirmed to be ancestors, I feel it's worth mentioning
So, Scrooge is telling a story about an ancestor ' in Torino in the first years of the 18th century' - worth noting that the first page indirectly specifies the year to be 1706.
Scrooge notes 'our ancestor', a young assistant baker named Papermicca.
Papermicca works for his uncle, Mastro de'Paperé. It's not made explicitly clear whether 'Mastro' is a title or his actual name; I'd imagine the former, though.
They're the only relatives featured in the story.
The next book features the mysterious I PM 185-1. A quick note on this one - INDUCKS states that the title changes between printings, from Ludwig Von Paperin to Ludwig Van Paperin, back and forth. However, the version I got (Paperino Mese 392) is marked as 'Ludwig Von Paperin', but I can confirm mine is 'Ludwig Van Paperin'.
The story starts with Donald playing in a big band and, of course, singing horribly. Having been run out, he meets Ludwig, who happened to be around going to a conference. They head back to Ludwig's, and they see him studying the family tree - the first panel shows four ancestors bunched together who, as is obvious from their appearance, couldn't have lived in the same time period.
He then shows Donald some sheet music by Ludwig Van Paperin - notably, Donald refers to him as 'my ancestor' and Ludwig doesn't seem to say 'our ancestor' in this one. Ludwig shows him off on the tree, noting that he is from the Central European branch, specifically. There are, notably, two characters immediately beside him - however, given the discrepancy noted above, they may not be directly linked to him.
(Clearer scan of Ludwig's face)
Our Ludwig begins to tell his story - notably, as he starts, the boys start looking at a set of instruments labelled (from what we can see) as being from the 15th Century. One of them is shown to be a flute seen in the story, so the story is most likely set in the 15th century.
So, in the opening, we see who Ludwig refers to as 'Our Ludwing' (not sure if this is is a typo, mistake or something I'm not getting) along with his three nephews. The one in blue is Kuó, so it stands to reason that the other two are Kui and Kua, though that's speculative - they're not named in the story.
Ludwig has an uncle in the story, Zio Von Paperonen. Dunno if he can be tied in in some way to Paper Von Paperonen from I TL 718-B, but figured I may as well mention it. He's never given a first name.
Also, some notes that are relevant: I TL 752-A features a Rockerduck expy, Ducka McRocker. He mentions that his ancestor, Rockius Duckius, went against Paperon McPaperon's ancestor, Petronius Paperonius. Rockius Duckius is noted in the L'Opera Omnia di Romano Scarpa collection as being an ancestor of Rockerduck's - so Ducka McRocker is part of that lineage too:
Also noted there is that McArchimed is from the Pitagorikon Clan.
Finally, the story features a Trisnonna Papera, who is a Grandma Duck expy - clarified further down.
Also notable in the Romano Scarpa collection is I TL 756-A (Can't remember if it's been discussed previously) It features Paperòn Papà, who is mentioned as being the son of Paperhone (Who is composited on our tree into Ebenezer Roger McDuck). His partner is Paporetta, with whom he later has a child - Scrooge.
Likewise, there is a contrasting Pykerdock, the son of Pokerdyck. After being hospitalized, he falls in love with his unnamed nurse, with whom he later has a son - Rockerduck.
Obviously, this story is irreconcilable with a lot of lore, but they should probably be added to the composite section, at least
Finally, there's a fact file at the end of the book, which confirms the following: Arkimedes Pitagorikon is an ancestor of Gyro, which means that McArchimed is also an ancestor based on the above evidence - though McArchimed is also confirmed as an ancestor.
Ducka McRocker is further confirmed as an ancestor.
Paperon y Paperonios' full name is confirmed as Hidalgo Paperon y Paperonios. Paporetta's full name is Oretta Paporetta.
The unnamed nurse... is still unnamed. Cool. She's referred to as 'Signora Pykerdock'. Finally, Trisnonna Papera is an ancestor of Grandma Duck.
Separate note, I TL 162-AP has ancestors in it: The story centres around Donald Ducktargnan. He has an uncle, Captain Thirtyville (This may be a nickname - Donald asks if his name isn't 'Twentyville', and the nephews explain that he's Thirtyville now because he has thirty towns. That being said, he's always addressed as such, so it may have been a legal name change or the like.)
He has three nephews: Huey Aramis, Dewey Athos and Louie Porthos.
There's a Gyro expy in the story whose name is explicitly Gyro Gearloose in the English version, but contextually, it's unlikely that he's related to our Gyro.
The final panel states: "And so the extended Duck family sailed for the new land called America, where, four centuries later, their descendants, Donald, Uncle Scrooge and their nephews would undertake adventures just like the Three Musketeers did."
I don't have the Italian version, but the same panel is present in a volume of the Romano Scarpa collection, and says basically the same thing.
Well, apologies for the looooooooooooooooooong post, but I figured I'd square everything I had in mind off in the one go Any questions or need for better scans, feel free to throw them my way!
Last Edit: May 25, 2023 19:53:29 GMT by alquackskey
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
So, Scrooge is telling a story about an ancestor ' in Torino in the first years of the 18th century' - worth noting that the first page indirectly specifies the year to be 1706.
Scrooge notes 'our ancestor', a young assistant baker named Papermicca.
The titles (and scans) as given by INDUCKS suggest that in most versions his name is Paper Micca. Only one Italian publication has Papermicca in the title. Maybe the version you read? Or are both writings used within the same publication? Otherwise, can I conclude that Paper is his first name and Micca his surname?
So, Scrooge is telling a story about an ancestor ' in Torino in the first years of the 18th century' - worth noting that the first page indirectly specifies the year to be 1706.
Scrooge notes 'our ancestor', a young assistant baker named Papermicca.
The titles (and scans) as given by INDUCKS suggest that in most versions his name is Paper Micca. Only one Italian publication has Papermicca in the title. Maybe the version you read? Or are both writings used within the same publication? Otherwise, can I conclude that Paper is his first name and Micca his surname?
I can only speak for the version I have - that being the one in Paperino Mese 382 - but it's spelled as one word throughout the story. Maybe it was changed for this version, but I can confirm that it's 'Papermicca' any time it's said in the story itself
The image on the first page (Which would have scans on INDUCKS) would suggest Paper Micca, but every instance in the story itself says Papermicca
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!