Surviving Duck family members

[RobbK1]

Sept 8, 2024 2:06:52 GMT whitewater said:

Sept 7, 2024 12:14:13 GMT LP said:

I don't think this is true. I just re-read the story to check, and the Ducks only refer to her as "Grandma" (and "Grandmother"). 

Personally, I prefer to think of the Best Cristmas-Grandma as Hortense. She doesn't visually match Elvira and she doesn't live on a farm. She acts more energetically than we're used to see from Elvira. Since we don't know what Hortense looked like, where she lived, or what she was like in her old age, it makes far more sense to me to retcon this into being a separate character. Of course, she would have passed away off-screen a while later. Also, Donald referring to his own mother as "Grandma" would make sense in the context of talking to HDL, who are very young in this story.

Anyways, this has been discussed elsewhere. I don't mean to further re-hash this same discussion again.

I've been beginning to think that this could be true, if it is Hortense, maybe she was a widow by this time? Donald mentions borrowing a "Grandpa's buggy", so maybe this was Quackmore who died after 1943, and Hortense died after 1945. But, they died sometime before Scrooge first said he was the last living McDuck/Donald was his closest relative. 

I know that a website that mentions Barks's works, says this Grandma is the same as Grandma Elvira Duck, my theory is Humperdink Duck could be different from the one mentioned owning a buggy, and that he died between 1930 and 1940, since he was around for Donald and Gladstone's early childhood, but Grandma Duck is a widow by 1940, see here. Further evidence that Humperdink died around this time is in a 1960 story, I believe, Grandma says to Daisy that she hadn't cried in over 20 years, maybe at Humperdink's death. Whenever Grandpa Humperdink Duck appears/mentioned it's always in flash backs, and this could be more evidence for Quackmore being this Grandpa, and Hortense being the Grandma in Best Christmas.

Agreed, but I don't think Barks intended this Grandma to be Donald's mother.  

I asked that very question to Carl.  He told me that he was already aware of the newspaper strip's character, and meant this character in "Best Christmas" to be that same character. He remembered that she was old and old-fashioned, but not having the "beehive hairstyle". He admits that he should have taken a look at how Taliaferro drew her, just before drawing her in this story. But, he was very busy at that time, and so he just decided to "bang out the story" just based on his faint memory of here.  He said that later, he was sorry that he hadn't bothered to get a copy of the comic strip.  He also told me that he always thought of her as Donald's grandmother.  It would have been too confusing for the youngest readers for Donald to address her as "Grandma" in front of his nephews, but as Ma', or Mom, or Mama when he spoke with her alone.  Also, originally she was expected to be used VERY seldomly - especially true in 1945, when Barks drew this story.  So there would be no reason to introduce Donald's OTHER set of grandparents.

[LP]

Sept 8, 2024 2:06:52 GMT whitewater said:

I've been beginning to think that this could be true, if it is Hortense, maybe she was a widow by this time? Donald mentions borrowing a "Grandpa's buggy", so maybe this was Quackmore who died after 1943, and Hortense died after 1945. But, they died sometime before Scrooge first said he was the last living McDuck/Donald was his closest relative. 

I know that a website that mentions Barks's works, says this Grandma is the same as Grandma Elvira Duck, my theory is Humperdink Duck could be different from the one mentioned owning a buggy, and that he died between 1930 and 1940, since he was around for Donald and Gladstone's early childhood, but Grandma Duck is a widow by 1940, see here. Further evidence that Humperdink died around this time is in a 1960 story, I believe, Grandma says to Daisy that she hadn't cried in over 20 years, maybe at Humperdink's death. Whenever Grandpa Humperdink Duck appears/mentioned it's always in flash backs, and this could be more evidence for Quackmore being this Grandpa, and Hortense being the Grandma in Best Christmas.

Agreed, but I don't think Barks intended this Grandma to be Donald's mother. 

I have a hard time accepting that Donald would refer to his own father as "Grandpa" when he is thinking to himself. The reason he can refer to the Best Christmas-Grandma as "Grandma" is that he is talking to his nephews. "Grandma" would be the name they are familiar with.

The Duckman-site you link to for Humperdink's 1940-death mentions no source.
The 1960 story you mention is likely Too Much Help. I know that Asger Pedersen, the Danish Duck-researcher, mentioned this in his Duck-Ancestors article. However, he was working from the Danish translation, and the thing about Elvira not having cried in 20 years is not present in the English original - instead Elvira says that she hasn't cried since she lost her puppy dog in kindergarten. 

With that said, there is no real evidence for when exactly Humperdink died. I do believe the mention of "Grandpa's buggy horse" in The Hard Loser suggests that he is still alive at that point. My head-canon is that he died shortly after this (which would be early to mid-1940s). Thus, Elvira needed a new farmhand and hired Gus Goose. Before being hired by Elvira, he worked on another farm in Honking-on-the-Hudson (and maybe one in Pumpkin Center). Anyways, this scenario is the one that makes the most sense to me.

[Fethryfan]

Grandpa Duck passing away in or around 1940 is a weird one. I've seen for almost 10 years now many sites using it as actual Don Rosa information, but i've never been able to track it down

In his family tree sketch, he implied that Casey Coot had died in the 1940s, but there are no dates for Grandpa Duck - not even a birth year

[whitewater]

Sept 8, 2024 21:08:58 GMT Fethryfan said:

Grandpa Duck passing away in or around 1940 is a weird one. I've seen for almost 10 years now many sites using it as actual Don Rosa information, but i've never been able to track it down

In his family tree sketch, he implied that Casey Coot had died in the 1940s, but there are no dates for Grandpa Duck - not even a birth year

He must have logically been born around when Grandma was born ca. 1855, but he could have been older. I think it’s logical he died in the 1940s, but there is no evidence for him being around, except when he was alive when Donald was a kid, maybe in the 1930s. But I think he died when Donald was a child, given in some modern and more recent comics he isn’t seen.

[sim]

Sept 8, 2024 23:20:22 GMT whitewater said:

Sept 8, 2024 21:08:58 GMT Fethryfan said:

Grandpa Duck passing away in or around 1940 is a weird one. I've seen for almost 10 years now many sites using it as actual Don Rosa information, but i've never been able to track it down

In his family tree sketch, he implied that Casey Coot had died in the 1940s, but there are no dates for Grandpa Duck - not even a birth year

He must have logically been born around when Grandma was born ca. 1855, but he could have been older. I think it’s logical he died in the 1940s, but there is no evidence for him being around, except when he was alive when Donald was a kid, maybe in the 1930s. But I think he died when Donald was a child, given in some modern and more recent comics he isn’t seen.

Grandpa Duck should still be around when Huey, Dewey and Louie are kids, at least according to The Hard Loser (1943).



And this is the story I was referencing earlier, in which Donald mentions the boys' grandma.

[whitewater]

Sept 9, 2024 7:54:39 GMT sim said:

Sept 8, 2024 23:20:22 GMT whitewater said:

He must have logically been born around when Grandma was born ca. 1855, but he could have been older. I think it’s logical he died in the 1940s, but there is no evidence for him being around, except when he was alive when Donald was a kid, maybe in the 1930s. But I think he died when Donald was a child, given in some modern and more recent comics he isn’t seen.

Grandpa Duck should still be around when Huey, Dewey and Louie are kids, at least according to The Hard Loser (1943).



And this is the story I was referencing earlier, in which Donald mentions the boys' grandma.

I agree that the Grandpa in The Hard Loser is likely Humperdink Duck, but again, I'm not so sure about Maharajah Donald, I again think this refers to Grandma Duck, it's probably too confusing for three young children to understand great-grandma. 

[rockerduck]

Sept 8, 2024 6:58:31 GMT RobbK1 said:

Sept 8, 2024 2:06:52 GMT whitewater said:

I've been beginning to think that this could be true, if it is Hortense, maybe she was a widow by this time? Donald mentions borrowing a "Grandpa's buggy", so maybe this was Quackmore who died after 1943, and Hortense died after 1945. But, they died sometime before Scrooge first said he was the last living McDuck/Donald was his closest relative. 

I know that a website that mentions Barks's works, says this Grandma is the same as Grandma Elvira Duck, my theory is Humperdink Duck could be different from the one mentioned owning a buggy, and that he died between 1930 and 1940, since he was around for Donald and Gladstone's early childhood, but Grandma Duck is a widow by 1940, see here. Further evidence that Humperdink died around this time is in a 1960 story, I believe, Grandma says to Daisy that she hadn't cried in over 20 years, maybe at Humperdink's death. Whenever Grandpa Humperdink Duck appears/mentioned it's always in flash backs, and this could be more evidence for Quackmore being this Grandpa, and Hortense being the Grandma in Best Christmas.

Agreed, but I don't think Barks intended this Grandma to be Donald's mother.  

I asked that very question to Carl.  He told me that he was already aware of the newspaper strip's character, and meant this character in "Best Christmas" to be that same character. He remembered that she was old and old-fashioned, but not having the "beehive hairstyle". He admits that he should have taken a look at how Taliaferro drew her, just before drawing her in this story. But, he was very busy at that time, and so he just decided to "bang out the story" just based on his faint memory of here.  He said that later, he was sorry that he hadn't bothered to get a copy of the comic strip.  He also told me that he always thought of her as Donald's grandmother.  It would have been too confusing for the youngest readers for Donald to address her as "Grandma" in front of his nephews, but as Ma', or Mom, or Mama when he spoke with her alone.  Also, originally she was expected to be used VERY seldomly - especially true in 1945, when Barks drew this story.  So there would be no reason to introduce Donald's OTHER set of grandparents.

She was wearing a bonnet? during the story, so that may have covered her hair/feathers. I agree that Donald calling her his mother would be confusing, especially as after her first appearance in 1940, she was always referred to as Grandma, not Donald's mother. Plus Barks may not have been aware of the earlier Grandma Duck design, and he just created an old lady, who could be Donald's grandmother. 

[wiwibr13]

These are my theories:
Quackmore and Hortense could have died in an accident (most likely a car accident)
Downy could have died of fatal cancer (since it is very strange that he died overnight)
Humperdinck could have died in an accident that was apparently blamed by Donald or Della (I assume this because a comic shows Humperdink's brothers along with Scrooge angry with Donald saying: you are a disappointment) and also says that he lived long enough to save Donald (which suggests that he may have died between 15 or 17 years of Donald)
Casey, because of how energetic he looked when he met Scrooge, could have died an expeditions of his father, clinton (respect to Gretchen in a Chinese advertising short, you can see her in the background at her son, Cuthbert's, wedding, which indicates that she is still alive).
Daphne, although Goostave is alive, it seems that Daphne is not. Well, in all of appearances of Goostave he seems alone, indicates that it is widower.

[sim]

Nov 12, 2024 15:57:22 GMT wiwibr13 said:

Humperdinck could have died in an accident that was apparently blamed by Donald or Della (I assume this because a comic shows Humperdink's brothers along with Scrooge angry with Donald saying: you are a disappointment)

I see that you posted this theory in another thread as well, so I think I might comment it.

Leaving aside the fact that those "Elders" are not said to be Humperdink's brothers, the reason why they say that sentence to Donald is explained in the story and has nothing to do at all with any accident occurring to Donald's grandfather.

[wiwibr13]

Nov 12, 2024 16:57:40 GMT sim said:

Nov 12, 2024 15:57:22 GMT wiwibr13 said:

Humperdinck could have died in an accident that was apparently blamed by Donald or Della (I assume this because a comic shows Humperdink's brothers along with Scrooge angry with Donald saying: you are a disappointment)

I see that you posted this theory in another thread as well, so I think I might comment it.

Leaving aside the fact that those "Elders" are not said to be Humperdink's brothers, the reason why they say that sentence to Donald is explained in the story and has nothing to do at all with any accident occurring to Donald's grandfather.

It's just a theory based on the appearance of the three (but it's just my theory and that's it) and I brought up the accident theory because it's strange that those two gentlemen resent Donald so much (at least that Less did something serious to one of them). them or someone close to them)

But again it is just a theory, it is nothing official and I would say that the only official thing would be Donald's age when his grandfather died.

by the way you finished me well

[sim]

Nov 12, 2024 17:06:51 GMT wiwibr13 said:

Nov 12, 2024 16:57:40 GMT sim said:

I see that you posted this theory in another thread as well, so I think I might comment it.

Leaving aside the fact that those "Elders" are not said to be Humperdink's brothers, the reason why they say that sentence to Donald is explained in the story and has nothing to do at all with any accident occurring to Donald's grandfather.

It's just a theory based on the appearance of the three (but it's just my theory and that's it) and I brought up the accident theory because it's strange that those two gentlemen resent Donald so much (at least that Less did something serious to one of them). them or someone close to them)

But again it is just a theory, it is nothing official and I would say that the only official thing would be Donald's age when his grandfather died.

by the way you finished me well

I understand headcanon when it helps filling some holes, but here you were just missing context.

[whitewater]

Here's my final list:

• Donald Duck
• Huey, Dewey, and Louie
• Scrooge McDuck
• Gladstone Gander
• Grandma Duck
• Gus Goose
• Fethry Duck
• Whitewater Duck
• Eider Duck
• Goostave Gander
• Dugan Duck
• Shamrock Gander
• Cuthbert Coot
• Fanny Coot
• Luke Goose
• Socrates M. Gosling
• Ludwig Von Drake
• Matilda McDuck
• Moby Duck
• Kildare Coot
• Gideon McDuck
• Rumpus McFowl
• Douglas McDuck
• Moocher McDuck
• Cyril McDuck
• Grandma Duck's sister
• Ludwig Von Drake's mother
• Scrooge McDuck's grandmother (ZD 85-09-08, she would likely be over 120+)

Possibly alive/hinted:

• Hortense McDuck 
• Della Duck
• Daphne Duck
• Lulubelle Loon
• Fethry's sister
• Jake McDuck
• Gladstone's brother(?)

[wiwibr13]

Nov 15, 2024 3:24:59 GMT whitewater said:

Here's my final list:

• Donald Duck
• Huey, Dewey, and Louie
• Scrooge McDuck
• Gladstone Gander
• Grandma Duck
• Gus Goose
• Fethry Duck
• Whitewater Duck
• Eider Duck
• Goostave Gander
• Dugan Duck
• Shamrock Gander
• Cuthbert Coot
• Fanny Coot
• Luke Goose
• Socrates M. Gosling
• Ludwig Von Drake
• Matilda McDuck
• Moby Duck
• Kildare Coot
• Gideon McDuck
• Rumpus McFowl
• Douglas McDuck
• Moocher McDuck
• Cyril McDuck
• Grandma Duck's sister
• Ludwig Von Drake's mother
• Scrooge McDuck's grandmother (ZD 85-09-08, she would likely be over 120+)

Possibly alive/hinted:

• Hortense McDuck 
• Della Duck
• Daphne Duck
• Lulubelle Loon
• Fethry's sister
• Jake McDuck
• Gladstone's brother(?)

but which grandmother? the goth or mom of Downy?
and also in a Chinese short you can see Lulubelle, Dora/Mary and wife of Casey Coot deep in the background

[whitewater]

Nov 15, 2024 5:30:40 GMT wiwibr13 said:

Nov 15, 2024 3:24:59 GMT whitewater said:

Here's my final list:

• Donald Duck
• Huey, Dewey, and Louie
• Scrooge McDuck
• Gladstone Gander
• Grandma Duck
• Gus Goose
• Fethry Duck
• Whitewater Duck
• Eider Duck
• Goostave Gander
• Dugan Duck
• Shamrock Gander
• Cuthbert Coot
• Fanny Coot
• Luke Goose
• Socrates M. Gosling
• Ludwig Von Drake
• Matilda McDuck
• Moby Duck
• Kildare Coot
• Gideon McDuck
• Rumpus McFowl
• Douglas McDuck
• Moocher McDuck
• Cyril McDuck
• Grandma Duck's sister
• Ludwig Von Drake's mother
• Scrooge McDuck's grandmother (ZD 85-09-08, she would likely be over 120+)

Possibly alive/hinted:

• Hortense McDuck 
• Della Duck
• Daphne Duck
• Lulubelle Loon
• Fethry's sister
• Jake McDuck
• Gladstone's brother(?)

but which grandmother? the goth or mom of Downy?
and also in a Chinese short you can see Lulubelle, Dora/Mary and wife of Casey Coot deep in the background

It never said which grandmother, all it said is that Scrooge was sent money by his grandmother, which he still has the money. I don't think it is Molly Mallard, probably Downy's mother. 

[wiwibr13]

Nov 18, 2024 3:33:49 GMT whitewater said:

Nov 15, 2024 5:30:40 GMT wiwibr13 said:

but which grandmother? the goth or mom of Downy?
and also in a Chinese short you can see Lulubelle, Dora/Mary and wife of Casey Coot deep in the background

It never said which grandmother, all it said is that Scrooge was sent money by his grandmother, which he still has the money. I don't think it is Molly Mallard, probably Downy's mother. 

In my most sincere opinion, I think it is more possible that it is Molly than Downy's mother, since in Ducktales 2017, which would be like the second most faithful series to the comics, there is a statue of Molly that apparently means that she was Leader of the McDuck's and that he may be trying to have a friendship with his own grandson so that Srcooge will give him money or something like that (I really smoked this theory) although I also have my reasons for believe that she is Downy's mother since apparently they had a much closer relationship (according to the only photo there is of her), so she gave him that money for something such as a birthday (although I also respect your opinion)