By we I meant those of us in this thread that voiced objections, yeah.
I understand your point. Feel of course free to continue explaining the US-German tradition of localising these stories, even if I personally am not a fan of the process, it's an interesting thing to read about.
I'll stop banging this drum (didn't mean to keep banging it this long!), the bottom line is really just that I feel the US localisers do enough of a twist on the stories that a separate head credit is well warranted. It's a Disclosure, really- "this story wasn't just made by these people, but by this localiser too".
But if new readers come here and get the idea—which I think is inaccurate, but could be inferred from quite a few posts these past few days—that our translations/localizations are uniquely disrespectful to the originals, or are disliked by any sensible European, or are an unprecedented affront to important traditions, then it stands to unfairly hurt us. These people will walk back into larger US comics fandom spreading the word that we're failing at our job. I can't speak for what "gets to" Thad, but that worries me.
Exactly. There's barely any discussion about the IDW comics here, beyond the solicitations and critical threads over comics the critics haven't even read. And chastising Joe Torcivia for his blog posts (did you ever consider he doesn't want to post spoilers?) and actually calling for his removal from the comics is just trollish behavior. Yes, I am being presumptuous, probably because there's a lot of presumptions about us being uniquely disrespectful to the original stories when you guys haven't even read them. Right now they're on Comixology for $1.99 each. I highly recommend any of the issues with Casty or Artibani stories. Go on. At least try to read them and frame an argument rather than state a vague negative position.
But if new readers come here and get the idea—which I think is inaccurate, but could be inferred from quite a few posts these past few days—that our translations/localizations are uniquely disrespectful to the originals, or are disliked by any sensible European, or are an unprecedented affront to important traditions, then it stands to unfairly hurt us. These people will walk back into larger US comics fandom spreading the word that we're failing at our job. I can't speak for what "gets to" Thad, but that worries me.
Exactly. There's barely any discussion about the IDW comics here, beyond the solicitations and critical threads over comics the critics haven't even read. And chastising Joe Torcivia for his blog posts (did you ever consider he doesn't want to post spoilers?) and actually calling for his removal from the comics is just trollish behavior. Yes, I am being presumptuous, probably because there's a lot of presumptions about us being uniquely disrespectful to the original stories when you guys haven't even read them. Right now they're on Comixology for $1.99 each. I highly recommend any of the issues with Casty or Artibani stories. Go on. At least try to read them and frame an argument rather than state a vague negative position.
There are at least a few cases where I read both the IDW translation and more faithful translations (Shellfish Motives, The Secret Origin of the Devilish Duck Avenger and The Pefect Calm come to mind), or in one case the original Italian itself (The Miner's Granddaughter).
I haven't stated my opinions here, though I have elsewhere: I approve of general spicing up of the dialogue to make it sound more natural for the characters, and replacement of the more obscure cultural jokes with similar English ones. I also approve of mushing over details that otherwise create continuity issues, like the "walking the length of the boat" thing in The Perfect Calm.
On the other hand, I don't really like the sometimes too exaggerated dialogue replacing normal-sounding, perfectly inconsequential lines (the "Jumpin' Jailbirds!" line discussed above, the somewhat puzzling line “that ain't all, space-kidettes!" in Jonathan Gray's rescripting of Shiver Me Timbers). I don't like the purpose of a dialogue being changed: if Scrooge was saying "I wish I wasn't snowed in inside my chalet" in the original, then he shouldn't be saying "Cousin Clem and Aunt Molly shouldn't have gotten married" in the localization. And I disapprove even more of actual changes to plot-points, minor or otherwise, such as the "Retro-Duck" thing.
And also, thoguh this is probably my least convincing argument because it hinges on my personal obsession with continuity, there is the continuity issue. Sometimes it really bothers me that we have two slightly different, overlapping versions of the same events. It's downright Donrosatian attention to details, of course, but it is a fact that through no plausible contortion of Time can Donald have both said on day X “Hello, uncle Scrooge” and “Nice weather today”. This ties into the "Cousin Clem and Aunt Molly" thing, as well: if characters or events are only hinted at in the localization, do they "really" exist? Should Clem and Molly be included in a putative Duck Family Tree, or not?
So, the American version of "The Blot's Double Mystery" (first Italian story to be published in the States?) is based on the German version translated by Erika Fuchs? If that's true, I apologize to the American translator for putting the blame on him for the changes, though of course this has nothing to do with IDW.
Still, if the American version was faithfully translated from the German version, then the German version must be really bad, and this is something I hope we can all agree upon. It's not just a matter of fidelty for fidelty's sake, it's a fact that the translated version completely changed the characters' motivations (like the Blot's idea to have Mickey kill O'Hara so that the former gets executed on the electric chair, and his later plot to bring O'Hara to suicide) to the point of creating plot holes. For example, in the localized version we are led to believe that the Blot warned O'Hara of the upcoming attempt to his life, which is degrading both for the former character (whose desire of revenge gets downplayed) and for the latter (not only it wasn't his merit that he saved himself from the attempted murder, but he was made to be an idiot who received an "anonymous tip" in a castle owned by the Blot and didn't even wonder about who wrote it).
This is one case in which the localization reallyvandalized a story.
As far as I remember these changes don't happen in the German version. But there are at least 3 different German translations of that story: the first one by Gudrun Penndorf in Lustiges Taschenbuch 62, a new one by Michael Jurkat for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Comic Anthology in 2005 and another one by Michael Bregel for the hardcover book series Hall of Fame 11 (Romano Scarpa 2). I just have the second one here and haven't read the first one for about 30 years but I don't think that the Blot warned O'Hara in it neither. Can't say however if Penndorf watered the Blot's plot a little bit in the sense that she maybe didn't mention the electric chair or the suicide part.
Sometimes the original script really needs heavy localization work too. I've visited Egmont creative in Copenhagen and read some of the English scripts by people not having it as a first language. And that was definitely not ready to be printed…
This is one of the cases in which I am in favor of localization, since Egmont scripts are written in English by people for which, in most cases, English is not their first language, and these stories are not primarily written for an English audience anyway.
In the case of PKNA I've read two different translations I can say that the IDW one is a lot more enjoyable to read than the other one! And the dialoged is probably the reason I like it so much even if I've read all of it before (really sad to see the IDW version gone). In the IDW monthlies there have been a couple of cases where I thought the obvious inserted puns didn't fit in the story – but that might be more because the humor didn't get to me.
I saw little of PKNA localizations, but I remember a gun being chnaged into a tranquillizer dart, something I didn't like. Of course, it's possible this was done because of the editor rather than the translator.
But in most cases I don't think much about the translation work or localization at all when reading a story.
Maybe a good test to see if a localization is well done could be this one: a translation may be OK if for most of the story you don't think about the translation work. Because having lines that you can tell were obviously done by the translator puts you out of the story, like it's breaking your suspension of disbelief.
So, the American version of "The Blot's Double Mystery" (first Italian story to be published in the States?) is based on the German version translated by Erika Fuchs?
No—by Gudrun Penndorf (as I stated), though in the Fuchs style and tradition.
Still, if the American version was faithfully translated from the German version, then the German version must be really bad, and this is something I hope we can all agree upon.
I'm sadly very busy today, so I can't devote as much time as I'd like to this—but "The Blot's Double Mystery" has always been regarded as a great story in the USA, even when judging by its English-via-German translation. I can't agree that the German source "must be really bad" when the English, made from it, had such an electric and exciting effect on me as a kid... and still does today!
Well, of course we have to take the "really bad" line into its context: for example, a badly translated Shakespeare play will still be full of sparks from Shakespeare's genius, but at the same time it would be really bad as a translated work.
It's not just a matter of fidelity for fidellty's sake, it's a fact that the translated version completely changed the characters' motivations (like the Blot's idea to have Mickey kill O'Hara so that the former gets executed on the electric chair, and his later plot to bring O'Hara to suicide)
I'm not sure offhand if these specific changes originated in the German translation or the English version—but think about what you're saying for a minute. Execution by the state, on an electric chair? Suicide?
Both Ehapa (publisher of the German edition) and USA Disney have long required that violent imagery this explicit be kept out of all-ages comic books. There is no way that the US edition in MICKEY AND DONALD, which 13-year-old me bought at a magazine store, would have been allowed to translate these points this precisely—indeed, they had to soften the language surrounding hypnotized-Mickey's attempt to kill O'Hara, too.
Are Americans that protective of 13-years old? When I was 12 I had to read, as part of the school program, detective stories (by Conan Doyle, Christie, etc.), horror stories (Poe, etc.) and other stories which are often far more violent than any Disney comic.
Of course, Disney comics are read by people younger than 13 or 12, but my point still stands: the idea that these things have to be censored to protect kids is pseudo-scientific, since no pedagogic value has ever been proven as coming from such censorship, while it has been proven that the artistic value of any given work decreases if the work is edited a posteriori to fit any arbitrary standard. Many countries faced, or are facing, these issues, and one day America will also have to deal with the issue of censorship in the arts, an issue for which of course we can't blame the translators.
But by slamming any version of the story that doesn't get quite as violent as the original, you're missing the forest (a still-great story) for the trees (a relatively negligible detail: the severity of a few threats).
I wouldn't say that the Blot wanting to get rid of his enemies (Mickey and O'Hara) by having the former kill the latter, and then have the former be executed, is a negligible detail, since that's the key point of the story. However, I can concede that the plan of having O'Hara commit suicide is a minor plot point.
There are also other problems with that localization that I din't mention here for brevity.
Since that story has never been published in the Usa, I guess "Emperor of Calisota" is an unofficial title. In that case, let me say that if the story eventually gets published with this title I would approve it as a good localization choice. Of course, an article explaining the real-life development of the concept of "Calisota" could still help.
Step back and look again at the US version of "Blot's Double Mystery." Right at the start, the Blot states directly and menacingly that here's where he's gonna get his REVENGE! (It couldn't be more obvious, or more threatening.) Then later, when (in the US version) the Blot warns O'Hara, how bad is that really? Reading the story as a kid, I thought: "Omigosh, the Blot tipped O'Hara off that Mickey would turn on him—to make it even more likely that O'Hara would be fooled and Mickey misunderstood. Wow, the Blot really is covering all the bases in his revenge, isn't he? This is one smart, careful villain."
Each of us may have our own feelings about how we like characters to be portrayed, but please be careful not to deliver a damning indictment based on minor details—that some could assess very differently than you do.
Even letting aside the issue of how the Blot wants his revenge (that's a moot point since imprinting will play a big role for people who grew up with "the wrong version"), there are two main problems with the treatment of O'Hara in the localization:
*As a character, he rarely can shine since in most of his cases Mickey is the one who succeeds in capturing the criminals. The fact that he was able to figure out on his own that some danger may have been going to happen to him, an was thus able to save himself without any help, was a great character moment that was completely ruined by the "anonymous tip" addition.
*More important, why didn't he wonder about who sent that tip, the answer of which was obvious? Since I don't use these kind of strong tones I'll quote someone who did, namely GeoX in his review of the story:
This bit from O'Hara is just stuck in so casually that you could skim right by it, but WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN YOU GOT AN "ANONYMOUS TIP?!?" DID IT NEVER OCCUR TO YOU TO WONDER WHO IT WAS FROM, YOU ABSOLUTE MADMAN?!? WHO WOULD POSSIBLY BE WANDERING AROUND THIS CASTLE GIVING OUT TIPS OTHER THAN THE BLOT?!? ARGH, I can't even joke about this. It's just so shamelessly nonsensical. Surely even as Martina was writing it, he must have realized on some level that it made zero sense. And yet...he kept at it. And THAT is how Guido Marina Amalgamated Enterprises Ltd became what it is today. Let it be a lesson to all of us.
I wouldn't have written it this way, but I agree with all of it. Well, except for the part that mentions Martina, since that line was added by a translator.
By the way, I'll use this thread to ask a question I had in mind for a while: in the US version of "The Blot Double's Mystery", does Goofy believe that Mickey is guilty when he helps him escape?
This thread started with the best of intentions—my editor wanted to credit me correctly in a public forum. It's very revealing that it devolved into chastising IDW for giving the the translators too much credit and a discussion of why everything we do sucks. It's obvious when you're not chatting about where certain characters fall on Donald's family tree, or whatever the inane subject of the week is, you're simply jealous of people who are actively contributing to these characters and comics and that you aren't. Oh well.
I admit I am the one who started the off-topic about whether the credits to translators/localizators should be on the front cover or just inside the book. However, I had that idea in my mind for a while, so even if this thread didn't exist I would have still opened a separate thread one of these days to discuss my question.
That said, I am definitely not jelous of anyone, since jelousy is a sentiment that I don't care for, and I never said anyone sucks.
Dammit, Italian Disney stories are often suggested to those STARTING to learn Italian because they use a very standard and correct language!
Sort of: many kids learned reading/writing Italian with Topolino, it's true, but language is not always standard. In fact, a 2012 research revealed how many Italians have trouble understanding words found in Topolino, such as "erudito", "nemesi", "incombenza", "diafano", "turpiloquio", "retrogrado" etc. Granted, some of these words are not really obscure at all and this is more a case of modern people having a smaller vocabulary, but it's a fact that many dialogues are not that standard.
it was Scarpa's enthusiasm for our Gladstone versions of his work that led him to team up with me and (editor) Byron Erickson on the original story "History Re-Petes Itself."
Did he comment stories translated from the original Italian, or also the ones translated from the German edition? I have a hard time imagining him liking the US version of "The Flying Scot", which if I remember correctly has some problems present in the localization originating from an unfaithful German edition.
I'd like to ask drakeborough to be a bit more sensible before outright saying this is an ego problem.
To be fair, I wasn't really suggesting that it's really an ego problem. It's just that, after the ego argument was first suggested as a reason some fans criticize the localization process ("Are we sure this is not just a nostalgia-"the way I read it is the only way"-issue... or ego?"), I was trying to show that said argument could work both ways.
It seems many of you would prefer these comics staying in their country of origin, despite the fact that if it weren't for American cartoonists and writers, none of these characters would exist! How fun!
Nobody is suggesting this, and I even wrote the contrary, i.e. that even though we have different ideas on how these stories should be localized, it's a great things that America is still publishing Disney comics.
BTW, the Kingdom Hearts manga panel... If you played the actual video games, you'd know Donald never talks like that in them... And the fact that some of you think a word balloon with that verbiage coming out of Donald Duck's mouth is appropriate in any context speaks volumes...
I didn't say it was appropriate, but I also didn't say it was inappropriate. I can't judge it without seeing the context: in many cases, a character speaking verbiage for one or two panels is used as a source of humor, especially when we are shown other characters reacting to it.
This thread started with the best of intentions—my editor wanted to credit me correctly in a public forum. It's very revealing that it devolved into chastising IDW for giving the the translators too much credit and a discussion of why everything we do sucks. It's obvious when you're not chatting about where certain characters fall on Donald's family tree, or whatever the inane subject of the week is, you're simply jealous of people who are actively contributing to these characters and comics and that you aren't. Oh well.
Ahem. It would be pointless, fight-inducing and tedious to keep discussing the "translaiton" issue, and the "jealousy" accusation. On the other hand… if you consider our usual thread topics "inane"… what are you doing on this forum, exactly?
Some of the threads do veer toward the obesessive, like trying to figure out who Donald Duck's grandmother's next door neighbor's college roommate was (please note, this comment is meant as absurd humor, not as a personal attack on anyone). The reason I stick around is for the discussions on the stories and creators, as well as the advance previws. I used to post art in the doodle thread, but I'm kinda cooling on Disney fan art as of late.
Making this thread to move the posts from the other thread here.
Discussion about the fact that USA tradition, like a few other countries like Germany, is to localise, instead of translate, stories. IE, stories are translated, and then the text is further altered- adding more jokes, etc. Ideally, the plot and meaning gets retained, while making it more familiar to US audiences. Sometimes, it stumbles a bit, but overall it works.
However, tradition in other countries, such as Italy and Portugal, is to just have a fairly faithful translation. At most tiny details may be localised- currency becoming Euro, for an example- but otherwise less liberties are taken with the text. This can result in somewhat dry dialogue if the story wasn't originally written already in Italian or Portuguese, but also generally works well enough. In this tradition, alterations to the plot and meaning tend to come from mistakes instead- popular example being Brazilians multiplying certain characters when they are drawn drastically different by different artists, by treating each design with its own name, and even sometimes making sequels that follow the logic that they're different characters (for an example, I discovered today that for decades, Barks' only appearance of Rockerduck was printed as being a separate character from all the Italian and Brazilian stories of Rockerduck).
Before we carry this on though. The thread got incensed, and I'd really not want that to continue. Please refrain from calling anyone stupid over this, please refrain from treating any argument you don't like as an attack on you, just, please be chill and realise we're really only talking about different cultures coming into contact.
If anyone has ever wondered why, unlike some of my dedicated colleagues at IDW, I rarely – if ever – participate in this forum, look no further than this thread!
I’ve not contributed to the out-of-control spiraling seen for Four Pages and (presumably) counting, or been involved in any way up to now. Yet, my name has been dragged into this potboiler to the extent that someone – whom I do not know, nor does he or she know me – is actually calling for my job, and that of any persons involved in the decision to employ me!
Good Lord! Can we (…or at least this particular individual) take a deep breath! Go back and read that comment! I will not reproduce it here! And THINK about what you said in a public forum, where anyone in the world can read this… including any powers that be at IDW? And, KKM… as moderator, how can you let such an ill-advised and potentially damaging comment stand?
How would that poster like it if I called for HIM to lose HIS job in a public forum? Again, THINK about what you said!
I despise the work of Kay Wright, and often make that known on my Blog. But I say nothing about him personally, because I KNOW nothing about him personally. And, if there WERE such public forums in the days he was working, I'd never be as low as to publically call for his job. Anyone think he -- or I -- might have a family or real-life obligations, and could do harm with such poisonous comments? Even for a moment? Huh? It seems that no one THINKS any deeper than the flea that's gnawing them presently, anymore.
It’s a sad, sad world when someone you don’t know, and have never knowingly acted in any way against, can capriciously make potentially and professionally damaging statements such as these, and just skip on his merry fannish way.
And, quite frankly, if you *did* “know me”, and my devotion to these characters (with which I’ve been associated with as reader, fan, and finally professional, for longer than most posters here have presumably been alive – Talk about *knowing* the characters), and my associations with Disney comics creators from my fandom days and more recent professional days, and how those associations have deeply influenced me… you’d *want* someone like me involved with these comics, because despite what some here seem to think… I care, very much!
Someone addressed the way I conduct my Blog. If I may be even more frank, in my interactions with readers and commenters, I maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect! Something I’ve seen very little of in this thread.
“Drakeborough” has experienced this first hand! I have had some epic disagreements with him over translations and more-so what he calls “Censorship” and I term “Editorial Prerogative”. Yet, he has always been treated very fairly and respectfully at my Blog. I can’t say the same for my treatment by certain folks here!
Indeed, to avoid the possibility this sort of unpleasantness ever leaking into my Blog in the future, I will no longer entertain any discussion of “originals vs. translations”. We will discuss the story at hand – and anything about *the specific version* that I am reviewing. But, please save the squabbling over “how this differs from that” for this forum, where it is clearly more suitable. Deal? Please consider that my “Editorial Prerogative” and not any presumed form of “Censorship”.
More on the Blog. There was criticism on the particular aspects of a story I highlight when reviewing an IDW issue. To this, I say please note the following:
I take this approach that has been objected to here with *every* comic book I discuss! Not just IDW Disney. Please go read my many reviews of SCOOBY-DOO TEAM-UP, BATMAN ’66, and the DC UNIVERSE / LOONEY TUNES crossover limited series, just to name a few.
I like puns… GUILTY! I like verbal humor. And I tend to highlight same, whether it is the product of a translator (which it must be in the case of IDW Disney), or original creators as with the other series mentioned above. I write about what I like. That’s why my Blog’s subheading is: “The Things That Interest Me”.
Beyond that, please read my Blog reviews… perhaps more carefully this time. You will see that I ALWAYS give explicitly first and top billing to the original creators – and name the translators last! Scarpa, Cavazzano, Casty, etc. never get short shrift from me! As translation is what *I* do, I may give more space to it than some of you may feel it deserves, but I have never mentioned Thad K., Jon Gray, or myself, before *any* of the original creators! That’s a hard and fast rule for me.
Finally, I’m dismayed that I keep hearing about “Captain Retro Duck” from this dedicated group – more than two years past its publication! I feel perversely honored that it’s become your de-facto “rallying cry” against anything you dislike about American translation and dialoguing!
The fact of the matter is – if David Gerstein hasn’t made it clear already – the system under which “Captain Retro Duck” came into being is no more! Repeat… No More!
It was done by yours truly with the then-correct intention of not making a story (that was NOT BILLED AS A REPRINT) seem ridiculously dated in 2015, and it ain't never gonna happen again - per Disney itself! Okay? So, let’s let up on “Captain Retro Duck”, because that matter has resolved itself (to your presumed satisfaction) without your help!
And, for what it’s worth, any members of the American audience, *our* audience... the one I am paid to serve… with whom I’ve interacted in person or electronically seem to indicate that "Captain Retro Duck" was the *best received* part of that story, that otherwise diffused itself in too many different directions.
Yes, those readers did not previously read the story in a dozen other languages, as some of you seem to have done, and cannot make the same comparisons… but they *enjoyed* what they got – as they got it! And, shouldn’t that be my primary concern?
Sorry for the length of this post, but I’d like to get my views in while I can… because I will not be returning. You need only look at the vast majority of this thread to understand why I will indulge no further.
Anyone and everyone is welcome to visit and interact with me at my own Blog which, per my own rules of civility and respect, will prove to be a very different experience than what transpires here.
Good Bye and Good Luck!
DISCLAIMER (As I say at my Blog): Just remember, I do not speak for IDW, or anyone in its employ. I speak strictly for myself as both a long-time fan and as a dialogue creator – and those opinions are strictly my own.
And, KKM… as moderator, how can you let such an ill-advised and potentially damaging comment stand?
I don't believe in deleting most bad stuff, I'd rather it stay up and called out. This way everyone gets to see what was said that crossed the line, and the responses and justifications. Unless you simply mean in the sense I didn't publicly call it out enough, in which case, fair point. I figured the responses given had been enough already, but maybe not.
Finally, I’m dismayed that I keep hearing about “Captain Retro Duck” from this dedicated group – more than two years past its publication! I feel perversely honored that it’s become your de-facto “rallying cry” against anything you dislike about American translation and dialoguing!
The fact of the matter is – if David Gerstein hasn’t made it clear already – the system under which “Captain Retro Duck” came into being is no more! Repeat… No More!
It was done by yours truly with the then-correct intention of not making a story (that was NOT BILLED AS A REPRINT) seem ridiculously dated in 2015, and it ain't never gonna happen again - per Disney itself! Okay? So, let’s let up on “Captain Retro Duck”, because that matter has resolved itself (to your presumed satisfaction) without your help!
Sorry to keep bringing it up, it's just an easy and egregious example because of what can be pointed out in your next comment. Regardless, it's good to let it up, yes, especially since as stated, the need for such changes is gone.
And, for what it’s worth, any members of the American audience, *our* audience... the one I am paid to serve… with whom I’ve interacted in person or electronically seem to indicate that "Captain Retro Duck" was the *best received* part of that story, that otherwise diffused itself in too many different directions.
Yes, those readers did not previously read the story in a dozen other languages, as some of you seem to have done, and cannot make the same comparisons… but they *enjoyed* what they got – as they got it! And, shouldn’t that be my primary concern?
I hope you can see, from what you wrote here, why such changes can feel uncomfortable, though. It's great that they enjoyed it- I enjoyed it myself, personally! But if this element, which you created, is the best recieved part of the story, doesn't it inherently cause an awkward situation where the most enjoyed part of this story, by these people, ends up not being the original at all but the additions made by you? It's really not a happy situation. Again though, moot point by now.
I'm sorry you were attacked, even if somewhat unintentionally, like this. Those that went over the line in this discussion, including myself, have been privately asked to cool down in such a tone futurely. Let's hope it doesn't end up repeating.
1. Having read Barks both in German and the original version I can't say I agree with that assertion about "totally different stories with the same pictures". Someone is greatly exaggerating here.
2. A Barks quote dating from 1992 that's maybe of interest, taken from an interview by Gottfried Helnwein (badly retranslated by myself from the German translation):
"Did you know your stories have been brilliantly translated in Germany by a woman called Erika Fuchs?" - "She must have been very good, because through conversing with fans I've always been under the impression that the German readers embraced my wit [humour?] the best, in contrast, for example, to the Italians, where the spirit of these stories obviously got lost in translation."
3. Kay Wright did some nice Junior Woodchucks, Moby Duck and Supergoof stories I wouldn't want to have missed.
If anyone has ever wondered why, unlike some of my dedicated colleagues at IDW, I rarely – if ever – participate in this forum, look no further than this thread!
Well, I don't think this thread, which surely got out of control, represents the typical tone with which we discuss the various topics. On the contrary, the tone of this thread seems the exception to the rule, a rule which for basically all other threads involves friendly conversations.
I understand your desire of not being involved in such discussions, but I hope you can change your mind about not participating anymore in this forum.
Someone addressed the way I conduct my Blog. If I may be even more frank, in my interactions with readers and commenters, I maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect!
Maybe this refers to a comment I made about how often in blogs the discussion about added puns/references sometimes almost trump the discussion themselves. Well, it wasn't meant as a criticism for how you conduct your blog (I wouldn't be a frequent reader/commentator of it if I didn't find your blog very interesting), it's just that at that point of the discussion I needed an example of how different views on translations affect fandom differently, back to minor details like how internet discussion of the stories differ.
Certainly I wasn't denying the atmosphere of civilty and respect, and atmosphere for which I made such comments as "hahaha, what a great group we are! " (copied from a message I wrote on your blog, when I was still an anonymous user, in March 2016).
“Drakeborough” has experienced this first hand! I have had some epic disagreements with him over translations and more-so what he calls “Censorship” and I term “Editorial Prerogative”. Yet, he has always been treated very fairly and respectfully at my Blog.
I can 100% confirm this: we had some debates on translations (I like the term "epic disagreements"), and they were always on a civil and friendly level. I have always felt, and still feel, welcome in your blog.
2. A Barks quote dating from 1992 that's maybe of interest, taken from an interview by Gottfried Helnwein (badly retranslated by myself from the German translation):
"Did you know your stories have been brilliantly translated in Germany by a woman called Erika Fuchs?" - "She must have been very good, because through conversing with fans I've always been under the impression that the German readers embraced my wit the best, in contrast, for example, to the Italians, where the spirit of these stories obviously got lost in translation."
I'd say this quote should be taken with a grain of salt, since Barks didn't knew Italian and so couldn't really know if Italian translations of his stories did or did not keep the spirit of them.
If anyone has ever wondered why, unlike some of my dedicated colleagues at IDW, I rarely – if ever – participate in this forum, look no further than this thread!
Well, I don't think this thread, which surely got out of control, represents the typical tone with which we discuss the various topics. On the contrary, the tone of this thread seems the exception to the rule, a rule which for basically all other threads involves friendly conversations.
I understand your desire of not being involved in such discussions, but I hope you can change your mind about not participating anymore in this forum.
Someone addressed the way I conduct my Blog. If I may be even more frank, in my interactions with readers and commenters, I maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect!
Maybe this refers to a comment I made about how often in blogs the discussion about added puns/references sometimes almost trump the discussion themselves. Well, it wasn't meant as a criticism for how you conduct your blog (I wouldn't be a frequent reader/commentator of it if I didn't find your blog very interesting), it's just that at that point of the discussion I needed an example of how different views on translations affect fandom differently, back to minor details like how internet discussion of the stories differ.
Certainly I wasn't denying the atmosphere of civilty and respect, and atmosphere for which I made such comments as "hahaha, what a great group we are! " (copied from a message I wrote on your blog, when I was still an anonymous user, in March 2016).
“Drakeborough” has experienced this first hand! I have had some epic disagreements with him over translations and more-so what he calls “Censorship” and I term “Editorial Prerogative”. Yet, he has always been treated very fairly and respectfully at my Blog.
I can 100% confirm this: we had some debates on translations (I like the term "epic disagreements"), and they were always on a civil and friendly level. I have always felt, and still feel, welcome in your blog.
2. A Barks quote dating from 1992 that's maybe of interest, taken from an interview by Gottfried Helnwein (badly retranslated by myself from the German translation):
"Did you know your stories have been brilliantly translated in Germany by a woman called Erika Fuchs?" - "She must have been very good, because through conversing with fans I've always been under the impression that the German readers embraced my wit the best, in contrast, for example, to the Italians, where the spirit of these stories obviously got lost in translation."
I'd say this quote should be taken with a grain of salt, since Barks didn't knew Italian and so couldn't really know if Italian translations of his stories did or did not keep the spirit of them.
I agree. For knowledge of the quality of Italian translations of his own stories, Barks was at the mercy of the opinions of a few Italian fans with whom he corresponded. We already see that Italian fans differ in their assessment of the quality of the foreign translations of stories by Italian writers, as well as the difference between reading Barks's stories in English and reading them translated into Italian.
First Casty and Artibani, etc. couldn't possibly like the IDW versions of their work. Then Scarpa had to have been mistaken that he liked the Gladstone versions of his work. And now Carl Barks must have been misinformed to have the opinion that the Italian translations of his work weren't very faithful, whereas the Fuchs German editions that took many liberties still remained on the mark.
Despite all of this coming from European posters, this line of concocting weird explanations that things can't be what they clearly are is very prevalent in daily American society—and throughout the world, too, I guess.
Instead of being vitriolic and maintaining that the American translations are uniquely disrespectful, you could just plainly say, "I don't like it." Nothing wrong with that!
First Casty and Artibani, etc. couldn't possibly like the IDW versions of their work. Then Scarpa had to have been mistaken that he liked the Gladstone versions of his work.
I didn't say anything about Casty and Artibani, while for Scarpa I only asked if the Gladstone translations that he liked were only the ones translated from the original version or also the ones translated from the German edition.
And now Carl Barks must have been misinformed to have the opinion that the Italian translations of his work weren't very faithful, whereas the Fuchs German editions that took many liberties still remained on the mark.
Again, when was it said that Barks must have been misinformed? Plus, "misinformed" is also a wrong word in this context, since it involves wrong info passed off as true info, while here we are not talking about hard facts but just about opinions, since different people feel differently about a translation.
And since Barks himself said he couldn't read nor speak Italian I think it's a fact that he couldn't really judge how his stories were translated in Italian. He could report an opinion he heard from a fan, but it's a safe bet that he never did a survey with a statistically significant percentage of Italian readers of Disney comics to see how they were received. We cant really use that interview as the only judge of Italian translations.
Instead of being vitriolic and maintaining that the American translations are uniquely disrespectful, you could just plainly say, "I don't like it." Nothing wrong with that!
I didn't say they are uniquely disrespectful: I criticized some aspects of them that I don't like, but I also praised other aspects that I like.
I promised my self I would stay out of this, discussions of this kind are not my style and that's not why I became a member of this forum. But I have to say this. Today I finished reading the complete British "Literature Classics" series. Translations range from "merely passable, leaving a lot to be desired" to "bland and uninspired" all the way to "so horrible it must have been done by soulless robots that actively hate humanity". The whole experience left me longing for the Torcivias, the Komorowskis, the Grays and the Gersteins of this this world.