Locations in Calisota and the Duck and Mouse Universe

[Matilda]

Sept 5, 2017 14:32:34 GMT Horace said:

Sept 4, 2017 23:27:19 GMT Matilda said:

 Both of these maps show Duckburg only and don't give any hints about the rest of Calisota.

As far as I know, the concept of a state like Calisota doesn't exist in German translations of Disney comics as many translators consider Entenhausen (German name for Duckburg and Mouseton) to be in Germany or at least in Europe. That goes back to the first German translator of Disney comics, the famous and beloved Erika Fuchs who used German geographical names in her texts all the time. (As a child I never wondered though why Donald and the nephews could ride easily and in short time by car from their German hometown to a desert where Indians lived or to swamps with wild crocodiles ).

Right, I'm aware of that, I just said what I did for drleevezan's sake, to tell him the maps would only help with Duckburg itself. They don't give any indication about other towns mentioned in the comics, for instance.

We had some discussion on some thread about which countries have assumed that Duckburg is in their country--and what the currency in Duckburg is. Germany is interesting because, although Duckburg is in Germany, they use a fantasy currency, the taler, right? Maybe that's an argument for Duckburg not being in Germany but "at least in Europe," as you say.

My impression is that Rosa's Life & Times influenced some European writers to begin placing Duckburg in the USA in other stories. But I should take this discussion to another thread!

[Horace]

Sept 5, 2017 15:51:41 GMT Matilda said:

We had some discussion on some thread about which countries have assumed that Duckburg is in their country--and what the currency in Duckburg is. Germany is interesting because, although Duckburg is in Germany, they use a fantasy currency, the taler, right? Maybe that's an argument for Duckburg not being in Germany but "at least in Europe," as you say.

The Taler is not a fantasy currency but one that was used some centuries ago in regions that belong to Germany nowadays. So you could maybe say that in German versions of the comics Duckburg is placed in some alternate timeline in a Germany that didn't have the currency reforms it had in reality (the Reichsmark, the Deutsche Mark, the Euro etc.).

[Horace]

Sept 5, 2017 15:02:34 GMT RobbK1 said:

Sept 5, 2017 14:32:34 GMT Horace said:

As far as I know, the concept of a state like Calisota doesn't exist in German translations of Disney comics as many translators consider Entenhausen (German name for Duckburg and Mouseton) to be in Germany or at least in Europe. That goes back to the first German translator of Disney comics, the famous and beloved Erika Fuchs who used German geographical names in her texts all the time. (As a child I never wondered though why Donald and the nephews could ride easily and in short time by car from their German hometown to a desert where Indians lived or to swamps with wild crocodiles ).

Entenhausen could have been located in a German state, such as Bayern or Westfallen or NiederSachsen, etc.  But how could Donald drive his car and a few hours later be in The American West (desert with Native Americans)  Is there a ferryboat regularly crossing The Bering Straits?  What kind of super jet fuel can make a car travel across most of Europe, all of European Russia and Siberia in just a few hours?  And could Donald avoid getting stopped by police and getting thousands of speeding tickets??  (I guess he could just speed by the police, who couldn't catch him!).  But could Donald and his nephews stand the body - crushing G-forces???  And could Donald's car keep from being torn apart from them???  It would be too impossible to believe that Donald, and, indeed, Duckburg, were located in Deutschland, or in any European land, IF one read American stories. 

On the other hand, when one reads a Christmas story in Dutch Donald Duck Weekblad, and sees Sinterklaas riding his stallion atop the roofs of 1700s "Gouden Eeuw" Dutch houses along a canal (reminiscent of particular existing Amsterdam streets), and The Ducks have driven there in Donald's car in a matter of minutes, it's hard to believe that The Ducks live in USA.

I like that the Dutch artists pick up local traditions in their stories. I saw that there was also (at least) one story in which the big bad wolf disguised as Zwarte Piet - although that figure from Dutch Santa Claus tradition isn't quite politically correct anymore (and this story will therefore probably never be published in other countries and certainly not in the US).

[drakeborough]

Sept 4, 2017 23:27:19 GMT Matilda said:

It wasn't Calisota that was shown as Duck-head-shaped in that fan-art map, drakeborough, it was Duckburg.

True, I was misremembering. Well, I guess that shows how much I care for that fan-made map. Still, the name Calisota was at least used in that map, so maybe that's why I associated that image with it.

Sept 5, 2017 0:24:45 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Sept 4, 2017 20:31:14 GMT drakeborough said:

Contrary to what's depicted on this map, I'll bet Calisota is a solidly blue state (at least today, might have been different in the 1950s).
How many electoral votes do you think it might have (and how many does California have in this universe)?

How many votes? I haven't the slightest idea. Of course, that image is part of a series of maps in which the color red is used just to show where a specific American state is located, but that's like stepping on the joke.

[RobbK1]

Sept 5, 2017 18:00:49 GMT Horace said:

Sept 5, 2017 15:02:34 GMT RobbK1 said:

Entenhausen could have been located in a German state, such as Bayern or Westfallen or NiederSachsen, etc.  But how could Donald drive his car and a few hours later be in The American West (desert with Native Americans)  Is there a ferryboat regularly crossing The Bering Straits?  What kind of super jet fuel can make a car travel across most of Europe, all of European Russia and Siberia in just a few hours?  And could Donald avoid getting stopped by police and getting thousands of speeding tickets??  (I guess he could just speed by the police, who couldn't catch him!).  But could Donald and his nephews stand the body - crushing G-forces???  And could Donald's car keep from being torn apart from them???  It would be too impossible to believe that Donald, and, indeed, Duckburg, were located in Deutschland, or in any European land, IF one read American stories. 

On the other hand, when one reads a Christmas story in Dutch Donald Duck Weekblad, and sees Sinterklaas riding his stallion atop the roofs of 1700s "Gouden Eeuw" Dutch houses along a canal (reminiscent of particular existing Amsterdam streets), and The Ducks have driven there in Donald's car in a matter of minutes, it's hard to believe that The Ducks live in USA.

I like that the Dutch artists pick up local traditions in their stories. I saw that there was also (at least) one story in which the big bad wolf disguised as Zwarte Piet - although that figure from Dutch Santa Claus tradition isn't quite politically correct anymore (and this story will therefore probably never be published in other countries and certainly not in the US).

The Big Bad Wolf (Midas) has disguised himself as Zwarte Piet in a few different stories, as has Donald, Scrooge (Dagobert), Br'er Rabbit (Broer Konijn)  and many other characters.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

So is the demarcation between Calisota and California, as depicted below, accurate?


Also, I've marked where I believe Eureka (the city that takes the place of Duckburg in our world) is situated. Does this mean Webfoot County in the Duckverse replaces the Humboldt County of our universe? Are the rest of the counties and cities in northern California the same, with the exception that they lie in Calisota rather than northern California in the Duckverse?

[Monkey_Feyerabend]

Sept 5, 2017 15:51:41 GMT Matilda said:

My impression is that Rosa's Life & Times influenced some European writers to begin placing Duckburg in the USA in other stories. But I should take this discussion to another thread!

Not the Italians, who always set the stories in the US.

[rasterax]

German stories do not, in fact, place Entenhausen in Germany. I don't get where that's coming from.

[drakeborough]

Sept 5, 2017 18:31:47 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

So is the demarcation between Calisota and California, as depicted below, accurate?

The main difference I can find between this map and the one I posted before is that in the latter the South border is a straight line which is parallel to the North border, while in the former it is a series of curves. I guess it was done in order to avoid splitting some counties into two states.

Sept 5, 2017 18:31:47 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Also, I've marked where I believe Eureka (the city that takes the place of Duckburg in our world) is situated. Does this mean Webfoot County in the Duckverse replaces the Humboldt County of our universe? Are the rest of the counties and cities in northern California the same, with the exception that they lie in Calisota rather than northern California in the Duckverse?

For the first question: maybe. For the latter, I think that nothern California states are in Calisota instead. Which leads to the question of which real-life state supposedly being in Caisota is bigger, or has the biggest population.

[gottfredson]

Sept 5, 2017 0:24:45 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Sept 4, 2017 20:31:14 GMT drakeborough said:

Contrary to what's depicted on this map, I'll bet Calisota is a solidly blue state (at least today, might have been different in the 1950s).
How many electoral votes do you think it might have (and how many does California have in this universe)?

The red color used there is probably just show where Calisota. Assigning any political purpose to it is overthinking it. Personally, I see it as a red state.  

It has 19 or 28 electoral votes and California has about 34. 

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Sept 5, 2017 20:02:26 GMT gottfredson said:

The red color used there is probably just show where Calisota. Assigning any political purpose to it is overthinking it. Personally, I see it as a red state.  

It has 19 or 28 electoral votes and California has about 34. 

Very unlikely that Calisota is (today) a red state. It's easy enough to answer definitively, though. Just add up the votes the two parties got in the counties included under Calisota in the map above, and see what the relative percentages are. The raw data one would need is here. But just a cursory glance (and its geographic location) suggests that it's mostly likely overwhelmingly blue. And Duckburg is likely to lean more heavily Democratic than the actual city of Eureka, since it's presumably larger and has a university attached to it (and Humboldt County went for the Democratic ticket by 25% last year as it is).

Yes, since most US state borders are straight, some counties on the Calisota-California border will have to be redistributed. But I don't think that would change election results, attempts to gerrymander notwithstanding.

BTW, why are we presuming Spoonerville is in Calisota? Wasn't there an episode of Goof Troop that showed it somewhere in Ohio on a map? I don't particularly care, as I'm not a Goof Troop fan (the show cannot possibly fit with the Mouseton-based continuity of the comics that I care about; Goofy and Pete are clearly actors playing roles here, and the other characters do not exist outside this show) but still.

Was the name of the hometown of Rescue Ranger Chip 'N Dale ever revealed?  

[threeseas]

But if Calisota were at the northern part of California, would there be snow in the winter time? I'm sorry but I am from 2,000 miles east so I do not know what the winter is like in northern California. I have always remembered there being snow in Duckburg during the winter months in the holiday stories.

When I was younger I always figured it was just a mythical state made up of the names of California and Minnesota. I used to think it was on the Atlantic coast just because the history more seemed to fit that area with the harbor and original settlers being (Pilgrims) from an older era than those who later settled California. But I guess if I take the original Spanish into the equation, the west coast was settled early too - I do not remember any of the stories referring to the original Spanish settlers of the area. It seemed like the settlers of Duckburg were based on the Pilgrims from the eastern US.

I am just a fan (since the 60's) and am by no means an expert, so I will defer to the ones here that have more knowledge on the subject.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Sept 6, 2017 17:40:49 GMT threeseas said:

But if Calisota were at the northern part of California, would there be snow in the winter time? I'm sorry but I am from 2,000 miles east so I do not know what the winter is like in northern California. I have always remembered there being snow in Duckburg during the winter months in the holiday stories. 

Well, out-of-universe it's well-known that Carl Barks gave Duckburg whatever weather patterns and landmarks suited the purposes of each story, with no internal consistency, and the later writers just went along with the generalities he unwittingly established (Duckburg's on the West coast… Not that far from desertic far west… with lush farming lands… it's very hot in the summer and it snows in the winter…).

In-universe, ummmm… I'm gonna go with "magickish mumbo-jumbo". Physics are clearly somewhat different in the Duckverse (take the fact that there are sapient species inhabiting nearly all of the Solar System's planets, or, for an even more invasive example, the fact that half of Gyro's inventions work); not that much of a threat by comparison that Duckburg might have some erratic weather. If one really needs a less general explanation, the numerous times mad scientists (and magic users of all kinds) blasted freeze rays into the sky or put Duckburg inside a space-time bubble or [INSERT WACKY HAPPENSTANCE HERE] surely must have altered the local climate.

[gottfredson]

Sept 6, 2017 0:32:59 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Sept 5, 2017 20:02:26 GMT gottfredson said:

The red color used there is probably just show where Calisota. Assigning any political purpose to it is overthinking it. Personally, I see it as a red state.  

It has 19 or 28 electoral votes and California has about 34. 

Very unlikely that Calisota is (today) a red state. It's easy enough to answer definitively, though. Just add up the votes the two parties got in the counties included under Calisota in the map above, and see what the relative percentages are. The raw data one would need is here. But just a cursory glance (and its geographic location) suggests that it's mostly likely overwhelmingly blue. And Duckburg is likely to lean more heavily Democratic than the actual city of Eureka, since it's presumably larger and has a university attached to it (and Humboldt County went for the Democratic ticket by 25% last year as it is).

Yes, since most US state borders are straight, some counties on the Calisota-California border will have to be redistributed. But I don't think that would change election results, attempts to gerrymander notwithstanding.

BTW, why are we presuming Spoonerville is in Calisota? Wasn't there an episode of Goof Troop that showed it somewhere in Ohio on a map? I don't particularly care, as I'm not a Goof Troop fan (the show cannot possibly fit with the Mouseton-based continuity of the comics that I care about; Goofy and Pete are clearly actors playing roles here, and the other characters do not exist outside this show) but still.

Was the name of the hometown of Rescue Ranger Chip 'N Dale ever revealed?  

Looking at that map, Calisota appears to be, mostly, made up of the red spots of California. Of course, that is assuming the denizens of Calisota follow the same thought process of California's citizens, hopefully they do not.

[drakeborough]

Sept 6, 2017 0:32:59 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Sept 5, 2017 20:02:26 GMT gottfredson said:

The red color used there is probably just show where Calisota. Assigning any political purpose to it is overthinking it. Personally, I see it as a red state.  

It has 19 or 28 electoral votes and California has about 34. 

Very unlikely that Calisota is (today) a red state. It's easy enough to answer definitively, though. Just add up the votes the two parties got in the counties included under Calisota in the map above, and see what the relative percentages are. The raw data one would need is here. But just a cursory glance (and its geographic location) suggests that it's mostly likely overwhelmingly blue. And Duckburg is likely to lean more heavily Democratic than the actual city of Eureka, since it's presumably larger and has a university attached to it (and Humboldt County went for the Democratic ticket by 25% last year as it is).

Yes, since most US state borders are straight, some counties on the Calisota-California border will have to be redistributed. But I don't think that would change election results, attempts to gerrymander notwithstanding.

Just for fun, I'll throw in here a link to this 12-page thread from the Papersera forum discussing which characters from the Duck and Mouse universe may be Democratics or Republicans.