And there goes my last shred of hope that we finally get to see Mathilda McDuck and Ludwig von Drake as a couple.
Yeah, they don't really care what the fans want. All Angones cares about really is his precious Darkwing Duck, an okay character but a far interior one to Scrooge McDuck
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Nov 24, 2020 23:23:59 GMT
Right, yeah, that episode wasn't great. Just got done watching it. But it's the writing here, I maintain. Michelle Gomez is quite terrific in the general case — and quite capable of going quiet. It's a real shame she was written the way she was, and I'm going to try to imagine Matilda's lines “Letter from Home” with Gomez in mind next time I reread, as an experiment. At any rate, I still do not at all like the 2017 Continuum McDuck family dynamic. Matilda is a third wheel, but even without her manic sound-and-fury to muddle things further, Downy and Fergus's relationship to Scrooge is just generally unpleasant.
On the bright side, I too thought this was a far stronger showing for the Blot than his debut. I quite like his having an earnest, emotional relationship with his sidekick; it feels like the same side of the character (put through the interdimensional blender) as that evidenced by the Prime Blot in his relationship to the Phantom Brat. And, arguably, it could even be said to tie back to the ending twist of the original De Maris/Gottfredson story, with the Blot appearing like a looming, heartless specter at first, but eventually being shown to indeed have feelings, and indeed to be quite sensitive — albeit in a way that just results in his vilainy being orchestrated differently (whether it be effective teamwork with Pepper, or insanely complicated death-traps he walks out on), as opposed to starting any kind of redemption. Regardless, it's giving the voice actor a bit more to do than just snarl in a hoarse voice, which is definitely a good thing.
Do wish they'd let him take off that glove once in a while, though.
I'm disappointed too but in fairness, I've interacted ith many fans who don't like the Ludwig/Matilda ship; some decry it as Rosa misunderstanding Ludwig, whom they cannot imagine being married at all (to Matilda or otherwise). And fair's fair, Von Drake did define himself as a bachelor in at least one of the actual TV specials. All else being equal, we must be careful not to fall in the trap of many fandoms sundered by “shipping wars”, and therefore, not to assume that when official creators take a side in such a shipping debate, they are “ignoring what ‘the fans’ want”.
By which I mean, I'm sure there are not-too-hot-on-Rosa comics fans for whom the inexistence of the Matilda/Von Drake pairing in the 2017 Continuum was a silver lining to the botching of Matilda's character. “Well, at least they didn't do the meaningless continuity fetishizing of pairing up Matilda and freakin' Ludwig, and understood that those were two completely different characters who scarcely belong in the same series, let alone the same episode.”
Right, yeah, that episode wasn't great. Just got done watching it. But it's the writing here, I maintain. Michelle Gomez is quite terrific in the general case — and quite capable of going quiet. It's a real shame she was written the way she was, and I'm going to try to imagine Matilda's lines “Letter from Home” with Gomez in mind next time I reread, as an experiment. At any rate, I still do not at all like the 2017 Continuum McDuck family dynamic. Matilda is a third wheel, but even without her manic sound-and-fury to muddle things further, Downy and Fergus's relationship to Scrooge is just generally unpleasant.
On the bright side, I too thought this was a far stronger showing for the Blot than his debut. I quite like his having an earnest, emotional relationship with his sidekick; it feels like the same side of the character (put through the interdimensional blender) as that evidenced by the Prime Blot in his relationship to the Phantom Brat. And, arguably, it could even be said to tie back to the ending twist of the original De Maris/Gottfredson story, with the Blot appearing like a looming, heartless specter at first, but eventually being shown to indeed have feelings, and indeed to be quite sensitive — albeit in a way that just results in his vilainy being orchestrated differently (whether it be effective teamwork with Pepper, or insanely complicated death-traps he walks out on), as opposed to starting any kind of redemption. Regardless, it's giving the voice actor a bit more to do than just snarl in a hoarse voice, which is definitely a good thing.
Do wish they'd let him take off that glove once in a while, though.
I'm disappointed too but in fairness, I've interacted ith many fans who don't like the Ludwig/Matilda ship; some decry it as Rosa misunderstanding Ludwig, whom they cannot imagine being married at all (to Matilda or otherwise). And fair's fair, Von Drake did define himself as a bachelor in at least one of the actual TV specials. All else being equal, we must be careful not to fall in the trap of many fandoms sundered by “shipping wars”, and therefore, not to assume that when official creators take a side in such a shipping debate, they are “ignoring what ‘the fans’ want”.
By which I mean, I'm sure there are not-too-hot-on-Rosa comics fans for whom the inexistence of the Matilda/Von Drake pairing in the 2017 Continuum was a silver lining to the botching of Matilda's character. “Well, at least they didn't do the meaningless continuity fetishizing of pairing up Matilda and freakin' Ludwig, and understood that those were two completely different characters who scarcely belong in the same series, let alone the same episode.”
Well you say that but they also gave Ludwig children meaning that he definitely wasn't a bachelor
I'm disappointed too but in fairness, I've interacted ith many fans who don't like the Ludwig/Matilda ship; some decry it as Rosa misunderstanding Ludwig, whom they cannot imagine being married at all (to Matilda or otherwise). And fair's fair, Von Drake did define himself as a bachelor in at least one of the actual TV specials. All else being equal, we must be careful not to fall in the trap of many fandoms sundered by “shipping wars”, and therefore, not to assume that when official creators take a side in such a shipping debate, they are “ignoring what ‘the fans’ want”.
By which I mean, I'm sure there are not-too-hot-on-Rosa comics fans for whom the inexistence of the Matilda/Von Drake pairing in the 2017 Continuum was a silver lining to the botching of Matilda's character. “Well, at least they didn't do the meaningless continuity fetishizing of pairing up Matilda and freakin' Ludwig, and understood that those were two completely different characters who scarcely belong in the same series, let alone the same episode.”
As much I like the entrie Ludwig/Matilda ship... Yeah. It's pretty much Rosa's fan-fiction that never made to the comics and some fans aren't crazy about it since it contradics the comics and cartoons where Von Drake is always sean living alone.
I do find it odd that the show somewhat ignored that Von Drake and the Ducks are related (Especialy seeing how this show love to tie things
Apperently Frank Angones was confronted about this on his tumbrl bloga and replied "Spoilers". Seeing Von Drake eccentric nature it would be funny if we learn that not only Ludwig is alive all this time ["Ha we never openly stated I'm dead!"] to troll the viewers and play a part do to FOWL/HUSH sotryline. Heck, he can still meet and fall in love with Matilda if they want to... Especialy since the show like to introduce characters so they can bring it back.
Let me make this clear: I'm not a "shipper" by any definition of this term. I just happen to like the "Mathilda von Drake" theory because, I'm sorry to say, it simply works better than anything else if we want him to be Donald's uncle. I know that in the Wonderful World of Color episode The Hunting Instinct, Walt Disney himself said that Ludwig is Donald's father's brother. Disney even said that Donald decided to adopt his maternal surname, Duck, when he got into show business! The problem is... nothing ever came out of it. Even though it came directly from the Man's mouth, it's been utterly ignored/disproved by pretty much everything else. Therefore, I have no qualm about ignoring Walt's explanation.
Besides, if people are so intent on keeping Ludwig a bachelor, they should be all up in arms that he had children in Raiders of the Doomsday Vault!, but I didn't hear anyone complaining about that.
EDIT: Also, brushing this off as "fan fiction" is a bit bizarre. Technically, EVERYTHING that any comic book author does or think about a character that originated in cartoons is fan fiction to an extent.
Last Edit: Nov 25, 2020 17:40:59 GMT by juicymcduck
Let me make this clear: I'm not a "shipper" by any definition of this term. (…) Also, brushing this off as "fan fiction" is a bit bizarre. Technically, EVERYTHING that any comic book author does or think about a character that originated in cartoons is fan fiction to an extent.
Oh, I wasn't accusing you personally of being "a shipper", nor brushing Rosa off as fanfiction, so much as giving my best impression of what anti-Don-Rosan comic fans tend to say about this. The accusation is often leveled against Rosa by his critics that he has the fannish instincts of a "fanfiction writer" pushing his favorite ships and interpretations into canon through the backdoor. This as opposed to most other Disney comics writers who see themselves latter-day "colleagues" to Barks, people doing the same thing he did, rather than an extended tribute to Barks's œuvre. I personally find nothing wrong with fanfiction, but I grant to such people that Rosa clearly has a different relationship to the classic comics than the average Egmont author.
(As for “shipper”, while you're certainly not an average or particularly representative shipper, I am compelled to note that you do fit some definitions of this term. Maybe not the most useful or thoughtful definitions; but “person who has a marked preference for two fictional characters to which they do not own the license being depicted as a couple rather than not” is certainly a valid definition, so that if a fan supports the Matilda/Ludwig pairing for any reason, this technically makes them a shipper by default.)
…Just to make it clear where I stand on all this, I quite like the Matilda/Ludwig pairing too! Although I actually think it isn't a very neat way to resolve Ludwig's place in the family tree. If one is unable to reconcile the "father's brother" idea — and I am not, if we assume this to be a half-brother: Ludwig can be the son of Humperdink and his first wife, from Vienna — then I still would rather Ludwig be depicted as some sort of relative of the Duck/Coot family rather than of Clan McDuck. And therefore, to me, Ludwig is both related to Donald on his father's side, in some way or other, and later happened to marry Matilda at a later point.
EDIT: Also, brushing this off as "fan fiction" is a bit bizarre. Technically, EVERYTHING that any comic book author does or think about a character that originated in cartoons is fan fiction to an extent.
Well ok, Sorry if it sounded like I'm "brushing it out". What I ment is that it's just not something that was ever established in any of the comics/cartoons/any version of the canon like that but something Rosa simply mentioned in interviews. I guess "Unused idea do to Publisher interference" is more correct term.
And yes, the idea of VonDrake being Scrooges brother in law makes most sence to me, since Walt's version suggest that VonDrake is son of Grandma Duck and thats... strange for many reasons.
I wasn't crazy about Von Drake kids but that was do to the fact that episode pretty much established that Ludwig is not related to Scrooge in this version (or that at very least they chosen to ignore the relationship) and that felt very odd and confusing... plus that episode is still in my top 5 least favorite episodes but that's not even among the main reasons.
…Just to make it clear where I stand on all this, I quite like the Matilda/Ludwig pairing too! Although I actually think it isn't a very neat way to resolve Ludwig's place in the family tree. If one is unable to reconcile the "father's brother" idea — and I am not, if we assume this to be a half-brother: Ludwig can be the son of Humperdink and his first wife, from Vienna — then I still would rather Ludwig be depicted as some sort of relative of the Duck/Coot family rather than of Clan McDuck. And therefore, to me, Ludwig is both related to Donald on his father's side, in some way or other, and later happened to marry Matilda at a later point.
On one hand It would make so much sence - looking at Rosa's version of the tree - for Ludwig to have some Clinton Coot genes in him (Clinton almost look like some Ludwigs ancestor). Perhaps making him offspring of Casey would do the trick, but then you have to question his surname... being a Coot feels something VonDrake would be to proud to change without a very good reason.
At the same time do to his age I always seen him as the same generation as Grandma and Scrooge (or even older) Von Drake being Humperdink's brother in law would aslo work for me.
Then agian, there is the matter of VonDrakes accent since the character is ment to be Austrian and that's more tricky to explain and making him marry to the family feels like more obvious explenation.
EDIT: Also, brushing this off as "fan fiction" is a bit bizarre. Technically, EVERYTHING that any comic book author does or think about a character that originated in cartoons is fan fiction to an extent.
This particular tangent was about differentiating between something Rosa actually established in an official Disney product and an idea of Rosa's that he wasn't allowed to actually establish in an official product, so I don't think calling it "fan fiction" is really wrong. Authors can be fans too.
(As for “shipper”, while you're certainly not an average or particularly representative shipper, I am compelled to note that you do fit some definitions of this term. Maybe not the most useful or thoughtful definitions; but “person who has a marked preference for two fictional characters to which they do not own the license being depicted as a couple rather than not” is certainly a valid definition, so that if a fan supports the Matilda/Ludwig pairing for any reason, this technically makes them a shipper by default.)
Well, going by this minimalist description, I guess you could call me a shipper. ^^ I mostly meant that it's no a hill I'm willing to die on, and you'll never see me upload videos on Youtube with questionable fanmades pictures of two characters together and romantic music--God forbid! It's probably a cliché, but I also have this mental image of shippers favoring couples that make no sense whatsoever.
EDIT: Also, brushing this off as "fan fiction" is a bit bizarre. Technically, EVERYTHING that any comic book author does or think about a character that originated in cartoons is fan fiction to an extent.
This particular tangent was about differentiating between something Rosa actually established in an official Disney product and an idea of Rosa's that he wasn't allowed to actually establish in an official product, so I don't think calling it "fan fiction" is really wrong. Authors can be fans too.
Oh, but you're perfectly right about that! I agree there's a difference between what actually made it into a story and what an author would've liked to include.
But I've always given a great importance to authorial intent, and Ludwig's exclusion from the family tree is mostly due to the fact that Egmont just didn't like the character. Since I like him -- thank you very much, Egmont! -- I feel free to restore the authorial intent in my head.
