- Well, the first (of four) Daisy's grandmother posted by LP looks exactly like this character. She is a bit different from how Taliaferro drew Grandma Duck (even in the '60s) and she seems to have known Scrooge in his childhood, so she might be either Don's mom or Scrooge's (who would also be Don's grandma).
Thanks again, Sim!
The Taliaferro-strip you linked to has been discussed before, in another thread... I can't recall which one though. Someone suggested that the lady in that strip could be retconned into being Matilda McDuck, which is a theory I like. However, that wouldn't explain why Daisy calls her grandmother in the other strip. (My answer would be that they are two separate individuals. But that's more head-canon than "truth".) Her being Donald's or Scrooge's mother wouldn't explain that either. I assume she was intended to be Grandma Duck (Elvira Coot) and that Taliaferro just lost his reference sheet or whatever... Maybe that's the best solution for eliminating this problem? That would still leave the last three remaining grandmothers.
I don't even understand how Scrooge and Grandma being siblings would work... I mean, in that case either Scrooge wouldn't be Donald's uncle (he'd be a grand-uncle) or Grandma wouldn't be Donald's Grandma (she'd be his aunt... or mother...). That being said, I would super-prefer if Scrooge was Donald's grand-uncle instead. That man is way too old to only be one generation above/below Donald! (well, not really, but I'd prefer it.)
Just out of interest, how old do you reckon Scrooge to be? Because the comics are wildly inconsistent on this matter. In some comics, Scrooge had already made a billion dollars seventy years prior to the present day, while in others he's old enough for a May-December romance with Daisy. Scrooge is anywhere from late middle-aged to positively ancient, isn't he?
- Donald's "proavo" (literally "great-grandfather", but I guess we could consider him great-granduncle) Paolo Paperis (based on DD's name in Italy, Paolino Paperino) fakes his own death in I AO 38022-A
- Donald and Scrooge's are direct descendants of Paper McPaper (deceased 30 years ago) in I TL 158-B - Paperozzo is said to be dead 20 years ago in I TL 375-A, but it's pretty difficult to define his true relationship with the Ducks: US claims that he was "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the grandmother of the sister-in-law of the husband of the daughter of the father of the father-in-law of the grandfather..." (but yet we don't know whose grandfather the last one is), while Donald says Paperozzo was "the brother of the brother-in-law of the husband of the sister of the nephew of the cousin..." (and yet we don't know whose cousin that last one was)... anyway, it's said in the story that Paperozzo held Donald in his arms when DD was only few months old - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
sim: - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
sim: - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
Well, yes, I get what you are saying, but this is a different case.
In the story I mentioned the notary claims that Donald, because of his mother's lineage, is the direct heir of this pirate. I commented this as "odd" only because that would be the McDuck side and Scrooge should be equally entitled (if not more) to the inheritance, but it looks like he belongs to another family.
sim: - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
Well, yes, I get what you are saying, but this is a different case.
In the story I mentioned the notary claims that Donald, because of his mother's lineage, is the direct heir of this pirate. I commented this as "odd" only because that would be the McDuck side and Scrooge should be equally entitled (if not more) to the inheritance, but it looks like he belongs to another family.
Right, got it! I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong to call it odd--just free-associating to similar weirdness. Yes, this sort of thing is particularly perplexing when there's an inheritance involved, or an inherited debt, which is supposed to apply to only one of the Ducks.
Just out of interest, how old do you reckon Scrooge to be? Because the comics are wildly inconsistent on this matter. In some comics, Scrooge had already made a billion dollars seventy years prior to the present day, while in others he's old enough for a May-December romance with Daisy. Scrooge is anywhere from late middle-aged to positively ancient, isn't he?
My head-canon tends to follow Rosa's view of the Duck universe. Out of all the Duck comic-creators I'm familiar with, his values of world building seems to agree with mine the most. He tried to establish a timeline of the world, as well as a family tree. I think those two aspects are important (along with geography, although Rosa doesn't seem to prioritize that one). Rosa has Scrooge born in 1867, and estimates that "the present" of Duck stories take place during the early to mid-50s. This would mean that Scrooge is around 80-87 in my head-canon.
- Donald's "proavo" (literally "great-grandfather", but I guess we could consider him great-granduncle) Paolo Paperis (based on DD's name in Italy, Paolino Paperino) fakes his own death in I AO 38022-A
- Donald and Scrooge's are direct descendants of Paper McPaper (deceased 30 years ago) in I TL 158-B - Paperozzo is said to be dead 20 years ago in I TL 375-A, but it's pretty difficult to define his true relationship with the Ducks: US claims that he was "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the grandmother of the sister-in-law of the husband of the daughter of the father of the father-in-law of the grandfather..." (but yet we don't know whose grandfather the last one is), while Donald says Paperozzo was "the brother of the brother-in-law of the husband of the sister of the nephew of the cousin..." (and yet we don't know whose cousin that last one was)... anyway, it's said in the story that Paperozzo held Donald in his arms when DD was only few months old - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
Since this Paolo Paperis is specifically mentioned as a great-grandfather, I would like to include him as that if possible! However, Donald can only have four of them. However, I've already boiled his great-grandfathers down into four individuals: Titus "Dingus" McDuck, Mac O'Drake (Mac Paperson), Danial "Bluffer" Duck, and Clinton Coot. I'm tempted to merge this Paolo-guy with Mac O'Drake, since he's the only one who hasn't had an image attached to him before. Thoughts on this? I would prefer if he could be made Donald's great-great-grandfather instead.... Anyways, wouldn't this Paolo be rather old? I mean, "great-grandfather" would mean that he would be at least... somewhere around 80 years old. He doesn't look too much older than Donald.
I think I've read about that Paperozzo-character before. The relationships with Scrooge and Donald proved to be too complicated to be logically placed on the tree. I don't think Scrooge's and Donald's accounts are compatible either...
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
- In Gastone e la luna storta there are multiple relatives of Gladstone: in a album we see four characters, said to be part of the lineage of Gladstone, called Gappo Buonasorte, Paperella de Quadrifoglis, ***rtunio ***runio (not clear because of how the story show the page) and Felice Cornucopia. All the four names plays on the theme of fortune and related symbols. But the true protagonist of the story is another, Badstone Badluck. He lived at Nanquacket, a "maritime village 100 miles north of Duckburg", during the end of the 1800. He was an extremely unlucky fisherman, who during a storm disappeared in the sea. In the story Gladstone repeat his voyage and through after convincing speech he lifts the curse and change history, so that Badstone becomes incredible rich. Initally called only an ancestor, when Gladstone incounter him, he said to be his great-great-grandson. So Badstone could be placed as father of Melania Hamilton, Gladstone Wickes, Tenent Gladstone or the unnamed great-grandmother. I think the latter is the best option.
Thank you for this information! And the scans are really helpful too! I'll have all of this fixed in the next update! Do you have any suggestion for where to place the four Gladstone relatives? Do we know how far back they lived? Their different surnames imply that they are either brothers of female relatives or married into the family.
The photos are literally the only information about them. But considering that they are in the family album, and the narrator says that fortune is a family trait, I would eliminate that they are married into the family. Instead my ipothesis is that they are relatives of Gladstone through collateral branches, maybe brothers or nephews of unsurnamed wifes.
sim: - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
I've always thought that when they say that simil-US is US's ancestor and simil-DD is DD's ancestor they meant something like being from different sides. So that simil-US is also DD ancestor, but simil-DD isn't US ancestor. Same for HDL. visual rappresentation of how I think the family works
Thank you for this information! And the scans are really helpful too! I'll have all of this fixed in the next update! Do you have any suggestion for where to place the four Gladstone relatives? Do we know how far back they lived? Their different surnames imply that they are either brothers of female relatives or married into the family.
The photos are literally the only information about them. But considering that they are in the family album, and the narrator says that fortune is a family trait, I would eliminate that they are married into the family. Instead my ipothesis is that they are relatives of Gladstone through collateral branches, maybe brothers or nephews of unsurnamed wifes.
I think the third name could be Fortunio (already name of a Gladstone's look-a-like/ancestor in Martina's "Storia e Gloria") no clue for the surname though.
sim: - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
I think we have talked on some thread in the past about the Disney Duck comics trope of the current members of the McDuck/Duck family being descended *independently* from their past lookalikes. I noted this in the Ringtail van Dukke story, and someone responded that he'd run across that in numerous stories, and it always bothered him in his youth. Donald is descended from the Donald lookalike, Scrooge is descended from the Scrooge lookalike, the nephews are descended from their lookalikes; as this respondent said, Families don't work like that!
I've always thought that when they say that simil-US is US's ancestor and simil-DD is DD's ancestor they meant something like being from different sides. So that simil-US is also DD ancestor, but simil-DD isn't US ancestor. Same for HDL. visual rappresentation of how I think the family works
- Donald's "proavo" (literally "great-grandfather", but I guess we could consider him great-granduncle) Paolo Paperis (based on DD's name in Italy, Paolino Paperino) fakes his own death in I AO 38022-A
- Donald and Scrooge's are direct descendants of Paper McPaper (deceased 30 years ago) in I TL 158-B - Paperozzo is said to be dead 20 years ago in I TL 375-A, but it's pretty difficult to define his true relationship with the Ducks: US claims that he was "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the grandmother of the sister-in-law of the husband of the daughter of the father of the father-in-law of the grandfather..." (but yet we don't know whose grandfather the last one is), while Donald says Paperozzo was "the brother of the brother-in-law of the husband of the sister of the nephew of the cousin..." (and yet we don't know whose cousin that last one was)... anyway, it's said in the story that Paperozzo held Donald in his arms when DD was only few months old - Donald is said to be direct descendant (on mother's side) of pirate Zamberlukko in I TL 1315-A, oddly Scrooge is not
Since this Paolo Paperis is specifically mentioned as a great-grandfather, I would like to include him as that if possible! However, Donald can only have four of them. However, I've already boiled his great-grandfathers down into four individuals: Titus "Dingus" McDuck, Mac O'Drake (Mac Paperson), Danial "Bluffer" Duck, and Clinton Coot. I'm tempted to merge this Paolo-guy with Mac O'Drake, since he's the only one who hasn't had an image attached to him before. Thoughts on this? I would prefer if he could be made Donald's great-great-grandfather instead.... Anyways, wouldn't this Paolo be rather old? I mean, "great-grandfather" would mean that he would be at least... somewhere around 80 years old. He doesn't look too much older than Donald.
I think I've read about that Paperozzo-character before. The relationships with Scrooge and Donald proved to be too complicated to be logically placed on the tree. I don't think Scrooge's and Donald's accounts are compatible either...
When did this Zamberlukko-fellow live?
Well, I guess that Pedrocchi's Donald was supposed to be in his 20s if not younger, anyway Paolo Paperis is thought to be deceased in the whole story, so he might be that old even if it doesn't seem. Keep in mind that in 1938 Donald had no known relatives (if we don't count HDL and GU which are contemporary and Pedrocchi may have not known about them), so the artist might not have thought about drawing beard or any other senile feature. And also, Paolo Paperis disguises as his butler wearing a moustached dog mask and he looks indeed older.
No clue about Zamberlukko, probably centuries ago, I'd say 1600/1700s.
LP : if you mean to respect the intentions of the authors (as you did with Sadstone Gander), I guess you should delete aunt Klazien from your tree. As you can see from original storyboard by Gorm Transgaard, the young lady was meant to be just Grandma herself, and the boy a former love interest of her from whom she inherits the farm. To mention Freddy Milton, one of the two authors of the story:
<<Only they [Sanoma] did not have the guts to establish our tale to be the canonized version of the famous Grandma Duck Farm origin story either. In the end those cowards changed the name of the leading character to be a mere relative of Grandma Duck. But in the version you read here things are as they were intended to be.>>
Well, I guess that Pedrocchi's Donald was supposed to be in his 20s if not younger, anyway Paolo Paperis is thought to be deceased in the whole story, so he might be that old even if it doesn't seem. Keep in mind that in 1938 Donald had no known relatives (if we don't count HDL and GU which are contemporary and Pedrocchi may have not known about them), so the artist might not have thought about drawing beard or any other senile feature. And also, Paolo Paperis disguises as his butler wearing a moustached dog mask and he looks indeed older.
No clue about Zamberlukko, probably centuries ago, I'd say 1600/1700s.
LP : if you mean to respect the intentions of the authors (as you did with Sadstone Gander), I guess you should delete aunt Klazien from your tree. As you can see from original storyboard by Gorm Transgaard, the young lady was meant to be just Grandma herself, and the boy a former love interest of her from whom she inherits the farm. To mention Freddy Milton, one of the two authors of the story:
<<Only they [Sanoma] did not have the guts to establish our tale to be the canonized version of the famous Grandma Duck Farm origin story either. In the end those cowards changed the name of the leading character to be a mere relative of Grandma Duck. But in the version you read here things are as they were intended to be.>>
It just seems odd to bring in a great-grandfather. A grandfather I could understand, but a generation older is suddenly weird to me. You don't see great-grandfathers being around, alive and well, in fiction too much. But maybe that's just me.
Thanks for linking the story boards, that's probably the only way I would ever have been able to read that story! I guess the writers intended for Grandma's real name to be Andrea, then?
Anyways, I don't know what my rules are regarding authorial intent. I'm worried I've been sort of inconsistent on the matter. Sadstone was hard to place because of that. I've included Rosa's sketch-only McDuck ancestors, even though they weren't ever featured in a finished story. In the end, I think I just want to include as much as possible, so that nothing gets left out... yet, I have elected to leave out Erika Fuchs' made up German translation-relatives such as Seppi Deppi...