Speaking of which, LP -- do you have the relatives in the Uncle Scrooge Treasure Chest series? Daglas McScrooge might be a bit too early for you, but I know there's a couple of McDucks in the Manhattan story that seems to have settled in New York in the 1700s/1800s.
I'm not at all familiar with this Treasure Chest series. Even if any relatives are too old to be featured in my tree, I would still be interested in knowing about them! So feel free to post any information you have available!
The Tartan of the Clan McDuck shows us a few of the Ducks' Scottish relatives. Although, confusingly, none of them seem to have known they even had Scottish connections. The story follows "Daglas McScrooge", a merchant in the Perth region of Scotland during the reign of Mary, Queen of Scots. The story takes place from 1542 to the 1570s/80s. Daglas also has a nephew, Donald MacDonald, who has three unnamed nephews. Daglas McScrooge seems to have been an ancestor of Scrooge, though perhaps not a direct one. The two branches, McScrooge and Mac Duck, are implied to be related.
Uproar in Manhattan follows a line of McDucks. On 22 April 1625, Dobian MacDuck makes landfall with the Dutch colonists at Manhattan, receiving the deed to the island for his part in sponsoring the journey. 150 years later, during the British landing at Kip's Bay (15 Sept. 1776), his descendant Dackmar MacDuck buries the deed in the ground. Both are confirmed Duck family ancestors.
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2021 20:47:01 GMT by That Duckfan
I dunno — it'd seem like a weird coincidence for Gyro to be next to Gretchen specifically if that were so, given that it's such a commonly-held suspicion. Notably, Rockerduck and Gyro are actually on the tree (i.e. within the green), unlike Flintheart and the Beagles.
Regarding Grote, by the way, it is one thing that you do not retain its own creations (or the Erika Fuchs creations it inserts), but wouldn't you consider using some of its depictions of otherwise-unseen relatives? I am thinking, for example, Eider Coot.
Thanks for the confirmation re: FamilyEcho. As to why it's like that, the expectation is that it's used for real family trees, and so you'll only share the link with real relatives… I don't know of any better, free family-tree-building software (what did you use, yourself?).
By the way, just noticed you didn't have Whitewater and Fethry as siblings on this thing. I think that's a losing battle you're fighting here… but alright!
Well, fair enough. The rules I'm going by with my tree is that there needs to be in-story evidence for a genealogical connection in order for me to include it. The exception is Rosa's tree, since he created those characters specifically to fill those empty spots. It's possible that my rules are inconsistent somewhere, I might have overlooked something. Has speculation of the Gretchen-Gyro connection been documented before? I mean, other than fans talking on forums, where is this connection coming from? Has there been an article in some Donald-magazine somewhere?
So, I would say that the major difference between Grote's and Rosa's "place-fillers" is that Grote uses background portraits and appropriates them. That would be fine in theory. However, some of these don't make any sense. Why does a portrait of Gladstone's father's mother's father hang in Donald's house, for example? The decision of which portrait goes with which character seems to have been arbitrarily done, which I guess is the main reason for my hesitation. When I read an old Barks-story and see a portrait of an angry duck on the wall, I'm not thinking "Aaah, yes - that's April, May, and June's father, who is married to Donald's cousin, which is why it hangs here in his house!" because... that's absurd to me. So yeah, as with most ancillary material, I regard that tree as an unreliable source.
I would hope that FamilyEcho has some sort of option of whether other people can edit the tree or not! In theory, anyone could dismantle the whole tree and let hours of work go to waste! That seems like a design flaw to me. I use Photoshop. I've made the "templates" myself. I prefer when the whole tree is visible at once, which doesn't appear to be an option with FamilyEcho.
There was a discussion about Fethry's relation to Donald in another thread called something to the effect of "A question about Cornelius Coot". There's a Kinney/Hubbard story where it's stated that Fethry and Donald are distantly related. First cousin isn't distant enough to be ... distant. But Donald also makes it clear that they aren't "distant enough". I chose to interpret this as second cousins. Whitewater is stated to be Douglas McDuck's nephew in a few Egmont-stories. In the original Barks-Whitewater-story he was said to be rather distantly related to Donald too (once again, I don't consider first cousin to be very distant). Rosa seemingly ignored these in-story facts when making his tree. I elect to not do that. That's the short version. I recommend reading the thread I mentioned for more information! (By the way, that's where you'll find the origin of my Duck tree too!)
- I've always seen that "he's not really my uncle" as "he has married my aunt", in fact he is a dog, but that's just my thought - Ronald appears in D 2004-149 (not a Dutch story, sorry) - Edipo as Mazuma Duck wouldn't work because he should at least be in Scrooge's generation and related to him, since Scrooge could inherit his fortune - Pampero is Scrooge's age (or little younger) around mid '800 - Donald's rich cousin (I don't know his name) appears in H 95051-
Thanks for the Inducks-codes! I'll check those out later!
According to Rosa, Downy O'Drake was born in 1840. It would be feasible to assume that her father was born around 1820, and her grandfather around 1800. If Pampero is Scrooge's age (75-80) around 1850, he would almost have to be Downy's grandfather. Hopefully that reasoning is sound; I'm kinda tired right now!
- I've always seen that "he's not really my uncle" as "he has married my aunt", in fact he is a dog, but that's just my thought - Ronald appears in D 2004-149 (not a Dutch story, sorry) - Edipo as Mazuma Duck wouldn't work because he should at least be in Scrooge's generation and related to him, since Scrooge could inherit his fortune - Pampero is Scrooge's age (or little younger) around mid '800 - Donald's rich cousin (I don't know his name) appears in H 95051-
Thanks for the Inducks-codes! I'll check those out later!
According to Rosa, Downy O'Drake was born in 1840. It would be feasible to assume that her father was born around 1820, and her grandfather around 1800. If Pampero is Scrooge's age (75-80) around 1850, he would almost have to be Downy's grandfather. Hopefully that reasoning is sound; I'm kinda tired right now!
That sounds good to me! Oh and Fethry has A LOT of cousins in I TL 696-A, I will try to give you names and pictures asap.
Speaking of "lots of cousins:" LP, what characters does the big block of blanks with no names between the Duck and Goose branches correspond to? So there's a lot of unnamed characters that go there?
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2021 21:15:23 GMT by stuftmcduck
Speaking of "lots of cousins:" LP, what characters does the big block of blanks with no names between the Duck and Goose branches correspond to? So there's a lot of unnamed characters that go there?
Yeah, sorry. I probably should have added some sort of indicator of who these are. They're supposed to be these guys from Gilles' tree. I didn't just want to rip low-quality images from his tree. If anyone has better quality scans, let me know!
Speaking of "lots of cousins:" LP, what characters does the big block of blanks with no names between the Duck and Goose branches correspond to? So there's a lot of unnamed characters that go there?
Yeah, sorry. I probably should have added some sort of indicator of who these are. They're supposed to be these guys from Gilles' tree. I didn't just want to rip low-quality images from his tree. If anyone has better quality scans, let me know!
Aha! Thought so. Do we at least have a lead on the story for them? In my own correspondences with Gilles I want to get the characters with names out of the way first, and he sadly went dark before I could ask about this crowd. I'd assume some sort of family reunion comic?
Yeah, sorry. I probably should have added some sort of indicator of who these are. They're supposed to be these guys from Gilles' tree. I didn't just want to rip low-quality images from his tree. If anyone has better quality scans, let me know!
Aha! Thought so. Do we at least have a lead on the story for them? In my own correspondences with Gilles I want to get the characters with names out of the way first, and he sadly went dark before I could ask about this crowd. I'd assume some sort of family reunion comic?
Hello there. When I was a week or two younger, I only knew of two grandmothers of Daisy - the one from YD 68-04-02 and the one from Donald's Love Letters (these are the ones represented by the images to the left below). Life was simple. However, I recently learned of an unnamed third grandmother, and a fourth one named Lily from the episode Phantom Wing from Mickey Mouse Mixed-Up Adventures.
So... the reason for bringing this up is that Daisy obviously can't have more than two grandmothers. Which ones could be merged into being the same? In my own opinion, number 2, 3, and 4 look similar enough to be the same individual. Then again, the Taliaferro-version has detached eyes, which none of the others have... so I simply don't know what would be best here...
There's also the option that some of these aren't actually Daisy's grandmother. The Tailaferro-one could be an off-model Grandma Duck, and the Love Letters-one might actually be her mother. (I would however prefer to keep the Donald's Diary-version of her mother, as that design is different enough to be it's own thing.) It appears that Lily is actually her grandmother, though. I know nothing about #3, but if the story isn't concrete about her position in the family tree, she could potentially be a great-grandmother instead.
Nice project. I'll add some other relatives that I haven't seen.
- In Paperinik e il grande Jake appears a man called Ralph Potter, who impersonate Donald's cousin Jake Paper to steal all of PdP's money. The image you have on your tree is of him, not Jake.
- In Paperino e il segreto della felicità Donald want to help his cousin Smorfio de Paperis, who lives at Ocaville. I saw that on your tree you have one "Smorfio Duck" as father of tree. I think that don't work with the character shown in the story for a series of reason. First of all, Smorfio is described to living alone, having no friends and being always a bad mood. This description would be very strange for someone who as three a family large as that you gave him in the tree. Second reason, this coming from the Jake's story: Donald and Jake were extremely close friends in young age, so Donald would know his parents really well. Yet he show no particular closeness with Smorfio. Plus, it is certainly unusual to call someone of at least a generation prior (as Smorfio should be to be Jake's father) with whom you have spent a lot of the childhood "cousin", yet Donald refer to Smorfio always in that way. The final reason is is surname. You called him "Duck", but in original he is "de Paperis", which in 1995 was already the established surname of Ludwig in italian. Plus he is a literate, being a dramatist (of no success). So for all this reasons, I think that Smorfio would better fit as part of the Ludwig branch, maybe as brother of Baldwin von Drake, and certainly with no family at all.
- Moving to another branch: the Quackett family. In order of appearance:
+ In Il tesoro di Francis Drakewe are told the story of Richard Quackett, the Mad Duke of Duckburg. He is an ancestor of John Quackett, nut maybe he is too far in time to appear on the tree. The story places gave us the date 1585, and Richard is shown adult here, so he was born probably around 1550s-60s. Fun fact, in that story we are also shown the "last descendant" of Francis Drake, called Howard Drake. + In Fantômius d'Egitto we find out that John's brother, Henry, is still alive, and live in a oasi in desert where there is the submerged city of Atlantis. Here he has a stable relationship with the queen Antinea.
+ In Notre Duck we learn about a relative of John's mother, who wore a black costume to collect taxes in France during the 1700.
+ In Fantomius torna a casa we are told of John's fathernal grandfather, Howard Quackett.
- In Gastone e la luna storta there are multiple relatives of Gladstone: in a album we see four characters, said to be part of the lineage of Gladstone, called Gappo Buonasorte, Paperella de Quadrifoglis, ***rtunio ***runio (not clear because of how the story show the page) and Felice Cornucopia. All the four names plays on the theme of fortune and related symbols. But the true protagonist of the story is another, Badstone Badluck. He lived at Nanquacket, a "maritime village 100 miles north of Duckburg", during the end of the 1800. He was an extremely unlucky fisherman, who during a storm disappeared in the sea. In the story Gladstone repeat his voyage and through after convincing speech he lifts the curse and change history, so that Badstone becomes incredible rich. Initally called only an ancestor, when Gladstone incounter him, he said to be his great-great-grandson. So Badstone could be placed as father of Melania Hamilton, Gladstone Wickes, Tenent Gladstone or the unnamed great-grandmother. I think the latter is the best option.
I've added all the images of the characters here, plus a scan of Sbafonio that I made some time ago.
Last Edit: Apr 18, 2021 15:30:53 GMT by farmspirit
Well, will you look at this! An actual list that Gilles Maurice made years ago of all the relatives he knew of that were still missing from his tree. And be warned...there’s a LOT!
I don’t know which characters on the list appear physically and which are just mentioned, though. Plus, there might be some mistakes on the list (translation errors, etc.) Also—looks like it also mentions the story where the “Duckfields” from that old Daisy family tree are from, namely: inducks.org/story.php?c=D+2001-168 .
It should be noted that Scrooge is almost as old as Grandma Duck, even though he's in the same generation as her son. That's an annoying quirk in the Duck family tree. Just because the ancestors are on the same horizontal line doesn't necessarily mean that they are born within the same 5-10 year span. The McDucks are almost always born around 20 years before the Ducks, even though they are on the same "generation line". For example, Humperdink Duck was born around 1850, but Fergus McDuck was born around 1830 - which is probably when Humperdink's own father was born. All of this is Scrooge's age's fault.
While it would probably spell horror to the hardcore Rosa-fans, the easiest way to fix the eternal generation-discrepancy (as well as a number of other contradictions in the tree), would be to make Grandma Duck Scrooge’s sister. The vast majority of the characters on this tree are from the pre-Rosa era, when Scrooge and GD being siblings was the consensus in the European, Brazilian and even the S-coded American stories—which makes it somewhat jarring to still have Rosa’s tree as its basis. You’ll see that, in their respective stories, Patagao and Hortensia are Grandma’s *and* Scrooge’s grandparents, Amanda is Grandma’s *and* Scrooge’s cousin, Gideon is Scrooge’s *and* Grandma’s brother, etc, etc.
Anyway, here’s some more quick comments to stuff I’m reading while scrolling through the thread (I can’t deal with the @#*% quoting system in this forum!! ):
- The relative sim mentioned that appears in the Dutch story “oom Dingeman” is called....Dingeman (well, “Dingeman Duck”, to be precise). He’s Donald’s distant uncle in the original Dutch text. - Walter McDuck is actually named Bhaltair McDuck in Korhonen’s original. - Cornelia Coot is actually a generation older (Cornelius’ great-granddaughter) - Bertrand looks about 60ish, IMO. It really doesn’t make much difference whether it’s Daisy’s mother or grandmother who is a Wister, if you ask me (maybe Bertrand got his title by marrying into royalty?)
Also, Howard Quackett (John’s grandfather) appeared in Fantomius torna a casa, a Christmas story from 2019.
What story is Coodle O. Luck from, by the way? Ive never heard of that character before.
Last Edit: Apr 18, 2021 16:17:32 GMT by Scroogerello
- Well, the first (of four) Daisy's grandmother posted by LP looks exactly like this character. She is a bit different from how Taliaferro drew Grandma Duck (even in the '60s) and she seems to have known Scrooge in his childhood, so she might be either Don's mom or Scrooge's (who would also be Don's grandma).
- Fethry's cousins in I TL 696-A are Sam and Sally (married) and their children: John, Bob, Joe, Flip, Sandy, Mac and Cindy (well, Fethry calls seven names, but eight kids appear in the drawing).
- In I TL 2154-3 is said that DD FE and GL are Duke Oconio Anatrozzi's 30rd cousins.
- Donald's deceased uncle Buck Paperin (Buck Duck?) is mentioned in I TL 313-A.
- Donald's ancestor Butch Paper (Butch Duck?), dead on 12th June 1848, is seen on a painting in I AO 53052-A.
- Unluckily no FE's aunt and uncle are mentioned in the Italian version of I TL 611-B (from Gilles' list), just Grandma Duck.
- In Gastone e la luna storta there are multiple relatives of Gladstone: in a album we see four characters, said to be part of the lineage of Gladstone, called Gappo Buonasorte, Paperella de Quadrifoglis, ***rtunio ***runio (not clear because of how the story show the page) and Felice Cornucopia. All the four names plays on the theme of fortune and related symbols. But the true protagonist of the story is another, Badstone Badluck. He lived at Nanquacket, a "maritime village 100 miles north of Duckburg", during the end of the 1800. He was an extremely unlucky fisherman, who during a storm disappeared in the sea. In the story Gladstone repeat his voyage and through after convincing speech he lifts the curse and change history, so that Badstone becomes incredible rich. Initally called only an ancestor, when Gladstone incounter him, he said to be his great-great-grandson. So Badstone could be placed as father of Melania Hamilton, Gladstone Wickes, Tenent Gladstone or the unnamed great-grandmother. I think the latter is the best option.
Thank you for this information! And the scans are really helpful too! I'll have all of this fixed in the next update! Do you have any suggestion for where to place the four Gladstone relatives? Do we know how far back they lived? Their different surnames imply that they are either brothers of female relatives or married into the family.
Well, will you look at this! An actual list that Gilles Maurice made years ago of all the relatives he knew of that were still missing from his tree. And be warned...there’s a LOT!
I don’t know which characters on the list appear physically and which are just mentioned, though. Plus, there might be some mistakes on the list (translation errors, etc.) Also—looks like it also mentions the story where the “Duckfields” from that old Daisy family tree are from, namely: inducks.org/story.php?c=D+2001-168 .
It should be noted that Scrooge is almost as old as Grandma Duck, even though he's in the same generation as her son. That's an annoying quirk in the Duck family tree. Just because the ancestors are on the same horizontal line doesn't necessarily mean that they are born within the same 5-10 year span. The McDucks are almost always born around 20 years before the Ducks, even though they are on the same "generation line". For example, Humperdink Duck was born around 1850, but Fergus McDuck was born around 1830 - which is probably when Humperdink's own father was born. All of this is Scrooge's age's fault.
While it would probably spell horror to the hardcore Rosa-fans, the easiest way to fix the eternal generation-discrepancy (as well as a number of other contradictions in the tree), would be to make Grandma Duck Scrooge’s sister. The vast majority of the characters on this tree are from the pre-Rosa era, when Scrooge and GD being siblings was the consensus in the European, Brazilian and even the S-coded American stories—which makes it somewhat jarring to still have Rosa’s tree as its basis. You’ll see that, in their respective stories, Patagao and Hortensia are Grandma’s *and* Scrooge’s grandparents, Amanda is Grandma’s *and* Scrooge’s cousin, Gideon is Scrooge’s *and* Grandma’s brother, etc, etc.
Anyway, here’s some more quick comments to stuff I’m reading while scrolling through the thread (I can’t deal with the @#*% quoting system in this forum!! ):
I'm no fan of the quoting system either! I have come across Gilles Maurice's missing-page before. I don't have a good answer for why I didn't include all of those in my tree, though. I think the large amount of them scared me. Plus that it's extra-hard to place relatives when there's no image connected to the names. I might actually have that Duckfield-story somewhere in my parents' attic. I'll have a look next time I visit them.
Scrooge's relation to Grandma is probably the biggest problem in Duck genealogy. I know there's an argument to be made that they are siblings, but the same could be said for them only being related via Hortense and Quackmore's marriage. To be fair, that's not just Rosa's view, but Barks' too, and he's the one who created Scrooge. And I think that way makes more sense too. Gladstone confirms his exact relation to Scrooge in the Race to the Southern Seas-story, and I don't think Grandma being Scrooge's sibling works together with that quote. I don't even understand how Scrooge and Grandma being siblings would work... I mean, in that case either Scrooge wouldn't be Donald's uncle (he'd be a grand-uncle) or Grandma wouldn't be Donald's Grandma (she'd be his aunt... or mother...). That being said, I would super-prefer if Scrooge was Donald's grand-uncle instead. That man is way too old to only be one generation above/below Donald! (well, not really, but I'd prefer it.) I'll conclude my ramblings by saying that I don't know how to best construct the tree with the contradictions. I'm trying to have it make as much sense as possible, but the idea that Scrooge and Grandma are siblings is a problem I can't solve, and I don't know how to deal with it in the best way.
By the way, thanks for those corrections and comments! I'll fix them soon enough!