It's probably been discussed to death, but is there a concrete link for Gus' grandfather? The unnamed one?
As far as I can tell, there's no canonical link from which to include him - the only thing I can really see is the Mark Worden tree
Not suggesting he be removed or anything, but if he's never explicitly referred to as a relative, I'd like to make note of that
Yes, I believe LP mentioned in an earlier post that he is there to fill in a blank spot. There is no story evidence that he is Gus' grandfather (it's just a background character in W WDC 254-01). The only "evidence" is Worden's tree.
It's probably been discussed to death, but is there a concrete link for Gus' grandfather? The unnamed one?
As far as I can tell, there's no canonical link from which to include him - the only thing I can really see is the Mark Worden tree
Not suggesting he be removed or anything, but if he's never explicitly referred to as a relative, I'd like to make note of that
As mkr said, it probably is a placeholder, like the mathernal grandmother in Gyro's tree (which comes from a story where Gyro's play the role of Galileo Galilei). I personally don't like the addition of those placeholders, cause they would generate only more confusion if someone ever stumble upon this tree without the explaining table, or reading all the thread.
EDIT TO ADD: Hannibal Duck - I wanted to check his original name in Italian, and the story is called "Paperino e l'eredità Pap Paper" I don't have access to it myself, but does the name imply that Hannibal's original name is Pap Paper?
So, I've read the story in question, and they make no mention of any "Hannibal" or "Annibale" (which is the italian version of the name).
What I found instead are many informations that can help use to recontextualize this character: for start, the notary approaches Donald Duck saying he has been nominated by a distant relative, called Pap Paper (is it name or surname? I'll return to the question later), his universal heir, after his death. Both QQQ and Donald later refers to Pap as "prozio", meaning great-uncle.
Since both can't be true unless Pap being related to QQQ through both their parents, it is probable that the "great-uncle" parentage isn't to see as an exact one, but more of a vague term to refers to some relative who is older than them (a more complicated relationship can be also inferred from the notary which, being the more professional, should have used the more precise term "great-uncle" if the relationship was so clear cut, instead of the more vague "distant relative").
At this point we know that Pap Paper is a relative of DD and QQQ, probably a n-great uncle, but also possibly a more complicated-relation relative. Since both DD and QQQ refers to him as "great uncle", it is fair to assume that he his at least around Donald's other great uncles generation. We also know that he died "tempo fa" (roughly translatable as "times ago"). Neither DD nor QQQ shows particular knowledge of him, so they probably hadn't met him, or if they did it could have been for a short time, or when they couldn't have memory like in infancy.
The notary tells the ducks that Pap wasn't super wealthy, but also left no debt. The inheritance Pap leaves to Donald is an old house in the Duckburg countryside. This implies that Pap was in the Duckburg area long ago (it will come useful later).
With no others informations, QQQ decides to check on the "Prontuario della stirpe dei paperi" (roughly translatable as "book of the dinasty of the ducks"). We quickly learn that isn't only about the capital letter Duck, because next panel Pap is described as "Pap Paper, ramo de' Paperoni, eccentrico, avaro...", which means Pap Paper, mcDuck branch, eccentric, greedy...
The story itself declares that Pap Paper is (or at least is coming from) the mcDuck side of the family. I'm still not set to declare him a mcDuck, because it depends on how we interpret "Pap Paper". If we were only show it, we would quickly assume it is the full name, with "Pap" being probably the name, and "Paper" the surname (this one then maybe retrofitted as meaning Duck, because the italian comics has never been too consistent with the Duck-surname translation: ie DD being Paolino Paperino, Grandma Duck being Nonna Papera, ecc). Yet the story says that he is from the mcDuck branch, so the surname theory kinda fells. But for the same reasoning, giving him the "mcDuck" surname seems odd. He is never referred as a "Pap Paper de' Paperoni", so why should we think he is one. Not even the notary, which as stated before should be be the most precise 'cause his job, calls him Pap Paper mcDuck. So I've come to the conclusion that personally there is no definitive cause for both parties.
Whatever decision you will take for the tree, consider that this character is either a mcDuck, or a Duck coming from the mcDuck branch. And here I'll take back into the discours the location of the house (I said it would have been important). The house is said to be very old, and build in a really desolated area, with the only other building near is (was) "the oldest house of the county, pride of the state and national monument!". So the area is definitely early colonization. It is definitely possible that Pap bought the house not so far ago, and so him being from Scotland, but nothing point to that conclusion. The much more easier solution is him living in the Duckburg area from much longer. And aren't already in the tree a branch referring to the New Continent-mcDucks? I think Pap should probably be placed there, maybe we could also integrate this branch in the GD-$mD common relatives idea that was floating around (after all, if some mcDucks were living in the New World, especially in the Duckburg area, at the time of the first colonizations, probably they knew the Coots and other first ones? Maybe even related in some way?)
Started reading only to check if a name was correct, and went on a totally different tangent. As said before, no mention of Annibale/Hannibal. I guess it either comes from the conflation with another character, some translation quirk, or it was just made up in an earlier tree, that later LP inherited.
It's probably been discussed to death, but is there a concrete link for Gus' grandfather? The unnamed one?
As far as I can tell, there's no canonical link from which to include him - the only thing I can really see is the Mark Worden tree
Not suggesting he be removed or anything, but if he's never explicitly referred to as a relative, I'd like to make note of that
Yes, I believe LP mentioned in an earlier post that he is there to fill in a blank spot. There is no story evidence that he is Gus' grandfather (it's just a background character in W WDC 254-01). The only "evidence" is Worden's tree.
I was assuming as much, but I wanted to be sure - thank you!
It's probably been discussed to death, but is there a concrete link for Gus' grandfather? The unnamed one?
As far as I can tell, there's no canonical link from which to include him - the only thing I can really see is the Mark Worden tree
Not suggesting he be removed or anything, but if he's never explicitly referred to as a relative, I'd like to make note of that
As mkr said, it probably is a placeholder, like the mathernal grandmother in Gyro's tree (which comes from a story where Gyro's play the role of Galileo Galilei). I personally don't like the addition of those placeholders, cause they would generate only more confusion if someone ever stumble upon this tree without the explaining table, or reading all the thread.
EDIT TO ADD: Hannibal Duck - I wanted to check his original name in Italian, and the story is called "Paperino e l'eredità Pap Paper" I don't have access to it myself, but does the name imply that Hannibal's original name is Pap Paper?
So, I've read the story in question, and they make no mention of any "Hannibal" or "Annibale" (which is the italian version of the name).
What I found instead are many informations that can help use to recontextualize this character: for start, the notary approaches Donald Duck saying he has been nominated by a distant relative, called Pap Paper (is it name or surname? I'll return to the question later), his universal heir, after his death. Both QQQ and Donald later refers to Pap as "prozio", meaning great-uncle.
Since both can't be true unless Pap being related to QQQ through both their parents, it is probable that the "great-uncle" parentage isn't to see as an exact one, but more of a vague term to refers to some relative who is older than them (a more complicated relationship can be also inferred from the notary which, being the more professional, should have used the more precise term "great-uncle" if the relationship was so clear cut, instead of the more vague "distant relative").
At this point we know that Pap Paper is a relative of DD and QQQ, probably a n-great uncle, but also possibly a more complicated-relation relative. Since both DD and QQQ refers to him as "great uncle", it is fair to assume that he his at least around Donald's other great uncles generation. We also know that he died "tempo fa" (roughly translatable as "times ago"). Neither DD nor QQQ shows particular knowledge of him, so they probably hadn't met him, or if they did it could have been for a short time, or when they couldn't have memory like in infancy.
The notary tells the ducks that Pap wasn't super wealthy, but also left no debt. The inheritance Pap leaves to Donald is an old house in the Duckburg countryside. This implies that Pap was in the Duckburg area long ago (it will come useful later).
With no others informations, QQQ decides to check on the "Prontuario della stirpe dei paperi" (roughly translatable as "book of the dinasty of the ducks"). We quickly learn that isn't only about the capital letter Duck, because next panel Pap is described as "Pap Paper, ramo de' Paperoni, eccentrico, avaro...", which means Pap Paper, mcDuck branch, eccentric, greedy...
The story itself declares that Pap Paper is (or at least is coming from) the mcDuck side of the family. I'm still not set to declare him a mcDuck, because it depends on how we interpret "Pap Paper". If we were only show it, we would quickly assume it is the full name, with "Pap" being probably the name, and "Paper" the surname (this one then maybe retrofitted as meaning Duck, because the italian comics has never been too consistent with the Duck-surname translation: ie DD being Paolino Paperino, Grandma Duck being Nonna Papera, ecc). Yet the story says that he is from the mcDuck branch, so the surname theory kinda fells. But for the same reasoning, giving him the "mcDuck" surname seems odd. He is never referred as a "Pap Paper de' Paperoni", so why should we think he is one. Not even the notary, which as stated before should be be the most precise 'cause his job, calls him Pap Paper mcDuck. So I've come to the conclusion that personally there is no definitive cause for both parties.
Whatever decision you will take for the tree, consider that this character is either a mcDuck, or a Duck coming from the mcDuck branch. And here I'll take back into the discours the location of the house (I said it would have been important). The house is said to be very old, and build in a really desolated area, with the only other building near is (was) "the oldest house of the county, pride of the state and national monument!". So the area is definitely early colonization. It is definitely possible that Pap bought the house not so far ago, and so him being from Scotland, but nothing point to that conclusion. The much more easier solution is him living in the Duckburg area from much longer. And aren't already in the tree a branch referring to the New Continent-mcDucks? I think Pap should probably be placed there, maybe we could also integrate this branch in the GD-$mD common relatives idea that was floating around (after all, if some mcDucks were living in the New World, especially in the Duckburg area, at the time of the first colonizations, probably they knew the Coots and other first ones? Maybe even related in some way?)
Started reading only to check if a name was correct, and went on a totally different tangent. As said before, no mention of Annibale/Hannibal. I guess it either comes from the conflation with another character, some translation quirk, or it was just made up in an earlier tree, that later LP inherited.
Ah, thank you! This is a great help, as has been a lot of the stuff you've posted! I don't really think it's my place to make judgements on who should be placed where, but I've added 'Pap Paper' as Hannibal's original name
As for the origin of Hannibal, I did some digging, and, sure enough... goofy313g.free.fr/missing.html "Donald's excentric uncle Pap Paper (Hannibal And in Danish, Dankwart in German)"
Thank you again!
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
So, still ticking through - getting close to the end! There are lots of unverified entries, which I'll save for when the spreadsheet is finished.
However, just a question for clarity - I'm at Picjean, from I TL 1743-AP. Does anyone know where the name 'Picjean' comes from? On INDUCKS, his Italian name seems to be Paperjean. I thought it might have been one of the translations, but it's definitely not French, Brazilian or German. The UK name is Jean Valduck, if that's worth mentioning
For now, I'll note Paperjean while keeping Picjean as his name - if anyone has any insight there, all is welcome!
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
So, still ticking through - getting close to the end! There are lots of unverified entries, which I'll save for when the spreadsheet is finished.
However, just a question for clarity - I'm at Picjean, from I TL 1743-AP. Does anyone know where the name 'Picjean' comes from? On INDUCKS, his Italian name seems to be Paperjean. I thought it might have been one of the translations, but it's definitely not French, Brazilian or German. The UK name is Jean Valduck, if that's worth mentioning
For now, I'll note Paperjean while keeping Picjean as his name - if anyone has any insight there, all is welcome!
I guess from the French version... Pic(sou)jean is very close to Paper(one)jean.
So, still ticking through - getting close to the end! There are lots of unverified entries, which I'll save for when the spreadsheet is finished.
However, just a question for clarity - I'm at Picjean, from I TL 1743-AP. Does anyone know where the name 'Picjean' comes from? On INDUCKS, his Italian name seems to be Paperjean. I thought it might have been one of the translations, but it's definitely not French, Brazilian or German. The UK name is Jean Valduck, if that's worth mentioning
For now, I'll note Paperjean while keeping Picjean as his name - if anyone has any insight there, all is welcome!
I guess from the French version... Pic(sou)jean is very close to Paper(one)jean.
Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to be the French version; the scan on INDUCKS is hard to read, but it's something along the lines of "Picsou Valjeacjean". Could be a shortened version of that, but there's nothing really to indicate that.
On an unrelated note, has anyone read "The Castle Heirs"? (W DD 42-01) I'm trying to piece together the relatives, and McTavish is listed on the website as having two daughters - however, the only one I can find any evidence of is the one that married Lochbert Gander. Is this an error or is it something else in the story that I can't access?
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I guess from the French version... Pic(sou)jean is very close to Paper(one)jean.
Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to be the French version; the scan on INDUCKS is hard to read, but it's something along the lines of "Picsou Valjeacjean". Could be a shortened version of that, but there's nothing really to indicate that.
On an unrelated note, has anyone read "The Castle Heirs"? (W DD 42-01) I'm trying to piece together the relatives, and McTavish is listed on the website as having two daughters - however, the only one I can find any evidence of is the one that married Lochbert Gander. Is this an error or is it something else in the story that I can't access?
The story just says that "McTavish Duck's daughter married a Lochbert Gander".
At the tail end of generation 9 - the end is in sight, folks!
So, there's one story - D 7236 - which has the gang go back in time to meet some ancestors. I was trying to verify that this story is where the Donald lookalike between Hamish McDuck and Drake McDuck originates.
I was looking at INDUCKS, and one of their images is this:
Assuming that the Donald ancestor does indeed come from this story, it's most likely him writing here (His sleeves match, right down to the ruffles) In that case, could we assume that his name is given in the original version of the story? I don't know what language the original script is in, but could "Capitan McPaff" [assuming I'm reading that right] be used as a placeholder name?
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
The names in grey are ones that I was unable to verify; not to say that the source is wrong, but there was no way for me to confirm that it was correct. Some of them say "first appearance", but ultimately it didn't make much of a difference what the wording was, as I wasn't able to check for myself.
The names in green are ones that I could verify the presence of, but not the original name. That meaning - I could confirm that the picture in question was accurate to the comic present, but not that the name was the original one. If it was a "mentioned only" character, I could confirm that there WAS a relative mentioned, but not the name specifically.
Red ones are the ones that don't yet have a source.
I know some of the "real names" are a bit pedantic, but that was the point of that part - utter pedantry for the original names
I guess from the French version... Pic(sou)jean is very close to Paper(one)jean.
Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to be the French version; the scan on INDUCKS is hard to read, but it's something along the lines of "Picsou Valjeacjean". Could be a shortened version of that, but there's nothing really to indicate that.
On an unrelated note, has anyone read "The Castle Heirs"? (W DD 42-01) I'm trying to piece together the relatives, and McTavish is listed on the website as having two daughters - however, the only one I can find any evidence of is the one that married Lochbert Gander. Is this an error or is it something else in the story that I can't access?
As sim said, there is only one daughter of McTavish mentioned in Castle Heirs. I've actually been wanting to bring up the story on this thread for a little while, but I've been reluctant to because there's already so much that we've discussed here over the past few weeks, and I don't want to give LP too much of a headache in updating his tree whenever he gets the time to. The story seems to indicate that Scrooge and Donald are about an equal distance from McTavish on the family tree. Scrooge's claim to being McTavish's heir is that he is the "oldest member of the Duck family," or something to that effect. It is later discovered in the story that Gladstone is actually McTavish's heir due to being a descendant of his daughter, Lochbert Gander's wife. To me, this implies that Gladstone is the either the sole surviving or the most senior descendant of McTavish and that Scrooge and Donald are probably not his direct descendants but just relatives. This tree currently has Scrooge be McTavish's great-great-great-grandnephew, Donald be McTavish's great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson, and Gladstone be McTavish's great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson twice over, through both Daphne and Goosetave. Personally, I would make Gladstone be the only one of these three to be McTavish's descendant and would make Donald be a multiple greats-grandnephew, just as Scrooge is presently. Again, the story only mentions one daughter of McTavish, and Gladstone's claim to be McTavish's heir is treated as significantly more viable than either Donald's or Scrooge's, because (in my interpretation) he is the only one of the three to be a direct descendant of McTavish rather than just some other distant family member.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
The names in grey are ones that I was unable to verify; not to say that the source is wrong, but there was no way for me to confirm that it was correct. Some of them say "first appearance", but ultimately it didn't make much of a difference what the wording was, as I wasn't able to check for myself.
The names in green are ones that I could verify the presence of, but not the original name. That meaning - I could confirm that the picture in question was accurate to the comic present, but not that the name was the original one. If it was a "mentioned only" character, I could confirm that there WAS a relative mentioned, but not the name specifically.
Red ones are the ones that don't yet have a source.
I know some of the "real names" are a bit pedantic, but that was the point of that part - utter pedantry for the original names
Any questions, feel free to ask!
Great job, alquackskey! Thank you so much for the all hard work that you've put into this! I may have more comments later when I have more time to study the index.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
The names in grey are ones that I was unable to verify; not to say that the source is wrong, but there was no way for me to confirm that it was correct. Some of them say "first appearance", but ultimately it didn't make much of a difference what the wording was, as I wasn't able to check for myself.
The names in green are ones that I could verify the presence of, but not the original name. That meaning - I could confirm that the picture in question was accurate to the comic present, but not that the name was the original one. If it was a "mentioned only" character, I could confirm that there WAS a relative mentioned, but not the name specifically.
Red ones are the ones that don't yet have a source.
I know some of the "real names" are a bit pedantic, but that was the point of that part - utter pedantry for the original names
Any questions, feel free to ask!
Great work!
I can confirm the following names:
Zebedea from H 99028 is also called Zebedea in the Dutch publication.
Duncan McDuck from H 86230 is called Duncan McDuck in the Dutch publication. Curiously, the Dutch title on INDUCKS says Duncan Duck. I don't know why. In the Dutch publication it is really Duncan McDuck.
Jake Coot from W OS 586-03 is simply called "uncle Jake" by Grandma Duck. The name Coot is not mentioned.
I will later check if there are some others I can verify.
Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to be the French version; the scan on INDUCKS is hard to read, but it's something along the lines of "Picsou Valjeacjean". Could be a shortened version of that, but there's nothing really to indicate that.
On an unrelated note, has anyone read "The Castle Heirs"? (W DD 42-01) I'm trying to piece together the relatives, and McTavish is listed on the website as having two daughters - however, the only one I can find any evidence of is the one that married Lochbert Gander. Is this an error or is it something else in the story that I can't access?
As sim said, there is only one daughter of McTavish mentioned in Castle Heirs. I've actually been wanting to bring up the story on this thread for a little while, but I've been reluctant to because there's already so much that we've discussed here over the past few weeks, and I don't want to give LP too much of a headache in updating his tree whenever he gets the time to. The story seems to indicate that Scrooge and Donald are about an equal distance from McTavish on the family tree. Scrooge's claim to being McTavish's heir is that he is the "oldest member of the Duck family," or something to that effect. It is later discovered in the story that Gladstone is actually McTavish's heir due to being a descendant of his daughter, Lochbert Gander's wife. To me, this implies that Gladstone is the either the sole surviving or the most senior descendant of McTavish and that Scrooge and Donald are probably not his direct descendants but just relatives. This tree currently has Scrooge be McTavish's great-great-great-grandnephew, Donald be McTavish's great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson, and Gladstone be McTavish's great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson twice over, through both Daphne and Goosetave. Personally, I would make Gladstone be the only one of these three to be McTavish's descendant and would make Donald be a multiple greats-grandnephew, just as Scrooge is presently. Again, the story only mentions one daughter of McTavish, and Gladstone's claim to be McTavish's heir is treated as significantly more viable than either Donald's or Scrooge's, because (in my interpretation) he is the only one of the three to be a direct descendant of McTavish rather than just some other distant family member.
I agree. Scrooge says: "I remember my old pappy telling me that his old pappy was related to a McTavish Duck". It might be through Molly Mallard, or through one of Titus' siblings' husbands/wives, or again some kind of uncle/aunt-in-law.