The comic the has the second (and last) printing of the Calamity Daisy story, Disney Apresenta #10, has a duck in a cowboy hat on the cover. Could that be her?
Waldemar - S 77008 (Bizarrely, is an Aunt Lobelia in Dutch version)
As for this one, it all depends on which version you look at:
In Dutch, Elvira mentions her aunt Lobelia.
In Brazilian, Elvira mentions her grandfather and her mother (both unnamed).
Similarly in French, Elvira mentions her grandfather and mother (both unnamed).
In Spanish, Elvira mentions her grandfather, her grandmother and her aunt (all unnamed).
In Italian and Greek, Elvira mentions at least her grandfather (and probably more, but INDUCKS only shows the first panel)
I suspect that Waldemar comes from the German version (since it sounds German), but I cannot verify this.
If you are able to read Arabic or Serbian/Croatian, you might want to look at the INDUCKS scans, as the first page (where the relatives are mentioned) of the Egyptian and Yugoslavian versions can be seen there.
In the Danish publication, which is based on the 3-tiered Italian version, there is mentioned a grandfather, grandfather, and great-grandmother. I believe this is the same in the Italian (and others based on that translation)
I don't have the Italian original, but I read the German translation. So, I can confirm that the picture of him in the tree is correct. His first name is not mentioned (in the German version at least), but he is said to be a McDuck, and he is said to be an ancestor of Scrooge. He was the owner of a shop. Scans of some pages of the story can be seen here.
Interestingly, he lived at the same time as someone who in the Italian version is Cornelius Coot (see scan INDUCKS), but who in the German translation is called Engelbert Erpel, and not Emil Erpil as Cornelius Coot is usually called in German. Maybe the German translator considered him to be someone else than the founder of Duckburg, as in this story this Engelbert/Cornelius has a statue in Duckburg because he performed a heroic deed, not because he is the founder of the city.
Vermund, Salomon, and Guldbrand are backed up by Gilles' original table; apparently the story is an anthology about the accomplishments of Scrooge's ancestors. Dunno if that's enough verification for you guys though.
I don't have the Italian original, but I read the German translation. So, I can confirm that the picture of him in the tree is correct. His first name is not mentioned (in the German version at least), but he is said to be a McDuck, and he is said to be an ancestor of Scrooge. He was the owner of a shop. Scans of some pages of the story can be seen here.
Interestingly, he lived at the same time as someone who in the Italian version is Cornelius Coot (see scan INDUCKS), but who in the German translation is called Engelbert Erpel, and not Emil Erpil as Cornelius Coot is usually called in German. Maybe the German translator considered him to be someone else than the founder of Duckburg, as in this story this Engelbert/Cornelius has a statue in Duckburg because he performed a heroic deed, not because he is the founder of the city.
Well, the German version looks pretty weird... In the original, the main character in the flashback is Cornelius Coot (of course) and the other Duck, just called "Mac Paperon" is not related to Scrooge. Scrooge mentions having bought his emporium from Mac Paperon's heirs.
As for this one, it all depends on which version you look at:
In Dutch, Elvira mentions her aunt Lobelia.
In Brazilian, Elvira mentions her grandfather and her mother (both unnamed).
Similarly in French, Elvira mentions her grandfather and mother (both unnamed).
In Spanish, Elvira mentions her grandfather, her grandmother and her aunt (all unnamed).
In Italian and Greek, Elvira mentions at least her grandfather (and probably more, but INDUCKS only shows the first panel)
I suspect that Waldemar comes from the German version (since it sounds German), but I cannot verify this.
If you are able to read Arabic or Serbian/Croatian, you might want to look at the INDUCKS scans, as the first page (where the relatives are mentioned) of the Egyptian and Yugoslavian versions can be seen there.
In the Danish publication, which is based on the 3-tiered Italian version, there is mentioned a grandfather, grandfather, and great-grandmother. I believe this is the same in the Italian (and others based on that translation)
Freezus Iced, this story is a nightmare, isn't it? Genuinely, it's amazing to me that so many different versions have completely different relatives mentioned - certainly doesn't make it easy to organize
I don't have the Italian original, but I read the German translation. So, I can confirm that the picture of him in the tree is correct. His first name is not mentioned (in the German version at least), but he is said to be a McDuck, and he is said to be an ancestor of Scrooge. He was the owner of a shop. Scans of some pages of the story can be seen here.
Interestingly, he lived at the same time as someone who in the Italian version is Cornelius Coot (see scan INDUCKS), but who in the German translation is called Engelbert Erpel, and not Emil Erpil as Cornelius Coot is usually called in German. Maybe the German translator considered him to be someone else than the founder of Duckburg, as in this story this Engelbert/Cornelius has a statue in Duckburg because he performed a heroic deed, not because he is the founder of the city.
I'll expand when replying to sim below, but the German version definitely seems to have taken a lot of liberties
Vermund, Salomon, and Guldbrand are backed up by Gilles' original table; apparently the story is an anthology about the accomplishments of Scrooge's ancestors. Dunno if that's enough verification for you guys though.
The sources for them came from Gilles' table - personally, while it has been a great basis, I don't think the table itself works as a verification source. For one, Gilles seems to mainly pull from German translations - which, as has been seen many times in this thread, leads to a lot of confusion, as many relatives are added that were not relatives in the original versions. Even outside of that, though, I think it's best not to outright accept a source as verified until we actually see the source - the reason for verification to begin with is so that, in future, we can say with confidence that a character originates in a certain story. The current point of origin for those characters makes perfect sense, but until any of us can claim to have actually seen it and recognize all three of those ancestors as being from the story, I'd prefer to keep the source as unverified
I don't have the Italian original, but I read the German translation. So, I can confirm that the picture of him in the tree is correct. His first name is not mentioned (in the German version at least), but he is said to be a McDuck, and he is said to be an ancestor of Scrooge. He was the owner of a shop. Scans of some pages of the story can be seen here.
Interestingly, he lived at the same time as someone who in the Italian version is Cornelius Coot (see scan INDUCKS), but who in the German translation is called Engelbert Erpel, and not Emil Erpil as Cornelius Coot is usually called in German. Maybe the German translator considered him to be someone else than the founder of Duckburg, as in this story this Engelbert/Cornelius has a statue in Duckburg because he performed a heroic deed, not because he is the founder of the city.
Well, the German version looks pretty weird... In the original, the main character in the flashback is Cornelius Coot (of course) and the other Duck, just called "Mac Paperon" is not related to Scrooge. Scrooge mentions having bought his emporium from Mac Paperon's heirs.
Ahh, interesting, thank you for this! So, it seems that the 'ancestor' doesn't belong on the tree at all - I'll move him over to Translation errors, so
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Also, apologies for double-posting, but just an update on the index - I've gotten started with the different languages. Obviously, we know that filling this out is very unlikely to happen - but as it stands, I want to at least get us a basis to work with
So, I went with the following structure:
NAME ON TREE - INDUCKS CODE/POINT OF ORIGIN - ENGLISH - ITALIAN - BRAZILIAN PORTUGUESE - DUTCH - DANISH - FRENCH - GERMAN - OTHER - NOTES
So, basically, it gives the character's name on the tree to begin with. The INDUCKS codes I felt were a necessity - with so many unnamed characters, it will help to keep them separate from one another.
The list of languages used was suggested by mkr earlier in the thread (I added German because I've seen it crop up enough for it to be warranted)
'Other' is mainly just a catch-all in case any language outside of the ones above is deemed important or necessary.
Also worth noting that, if I can be sure that a character has not appeared in a certain language, I 've been filling in the relevant blocks with a brown colour - this is basically a simple short-hand for "Character wasn't published in this language, no need to look for it" Meanwhile, if the character has a publication in a language, the block is left blank.
I mentioned earlier that I had concerns around INDUCKS names given for characters - there seem to have been a couple of mistakes or misinterpretations here and there. For the sake of being 100% sure, I marked any names pulled from INDUCKS with an asterisk; as time goes on, if anyone can confirm that a name is accurate, we can remove the asterisk.
On the subject of INDUCKS, I also raised a concern regarding 'occasional' names (I've opted to leave out rare/former names) - I've marked these with two asterisks.
Now come the questions: For one, we know that certain characters have English names, despite the story never having been published in English - easy example, Dietbald McDuck. The problem is that it is very difficult to be sure where a script originated without very thorough research.
In theory, I could just leave the 'English' slot blank for any D or S coded stories, but that doesn't quite feel right - I could maybe mark them in Blue to signify that they might have a different name in the original script? Or I could just mark them in brown and, if we have evidence to suggest that they might have a different name in the original script, I could change it as the info comes up?
The other question is regarding composite characters - how should they be categorized? Currently, each character is listed in one large block, with different names and sources mentioned This works in the regular format, but not for this kind of sheet - as each part of a composite character, in this case, needs to be verified separately due to differing publications and the like. Genuinely not sure what to do on these ones, so any ideas are appreciated!
That's about everything I have regarding the Languages section - all ideas and feedback welcome!
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Now come the questions: For one, we know that certain characters have English names, despite the story never having been published in English - easy example, Dietbald McDuck. The problem is that it is very difficult to be sure where a script originated without very thorough research.
In theory, I could just leave the 'English' slot blank for any D or S coded stories, but that doesn't quite feel right - I could maybe mark them in Blue to signify that they might have a different name in the original script? Or I could just mark them in brown and, if we have evidence to suggest that they might have a different name in the original script, I could change it as the info comes up?
I don't think it matters so much how you exactly mark it, but it is indeed useful to mark if the English name originates from a publication or from the original script. You could also make two columns if that is easier: one for English names in publications/translations (which you then can color if it was never published in English, similar as you do for the other languages) and another column for English names from scripts. That gives the option to list different English names, for those stories where the American publisher decided to change the name.
The other question is regarding composite characters - how should they be categorized? Currently, each character is listed in one large block, with different names and sources mentioned This works in the regular format, but not for this kind of sheet - as each part of a composite character, in this case, needs to be verified separately due to differing publications and the like. Genuinely not sure what to do on these ones, so any ideas are appreciated!
Maybe just use a separate line for each part of the composite character. You can for example use the notes column to remark that they are part of a composite.
Now come the questions: For one, we know that certain characters have English names, despite the story never having been published in English - easy example, Dietbald McDuck. The problem is that it is very difficult to be sure where a script originated without very thorough research.
In theory, I could just leave the 'English' slot blank for any D or S coded stories, but that doesn't quite feel right - I could maybe mark them in Blue to signify that they might have a different name in the original script? Or I could just mark them in brown and, if we have evidence to suggest that they might have a different name in the original script, I could change it as the info comes up?
I don't think it matters so much how you exactly mark it, but it is indeed useful to mark if the English name originates from a publication or from the original script. You could also make two columns if that is easier: one for English names in publications/translations (which you then can color if it was never published in English, similar as you do for the other languages) and another column for English names from scripts. That gives the option to list different English names, for those stories where the American publisher decided to change the name.
The other question is regarding composite characters - how should they be categorized? Currently, each character is listed in one large block, with different names and sources mentioned This works in the regular format, but not for this kind of sheet - as each part of a composite character, in this case, needs to be verified separately due to differing publications and the like. Genuinely not sure what to do on these ones, so any ideas are appreciated!
Maybe just use a separate line for each part of the composite character. You can for example use the notes column to remark that they are part of a composite.
Two columns sounds like the best bet; I'll add an 'original script' column, which sorts out... a decent few of the problems, actually I'm not 100% certain on original scripts and whatnot, so for the first iteration, I'll probably leave it blank outside of sources that have been verified
As for each part of a composite being a separate line... I suppose it IS the simplest option. I think the best way to do it, following that method, would be to mark the first character with a blue box, and denote each following one with an asterisk? It would group them together, while running little risk of confusion
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I hope the images in the following posts don't take up too much space!
In Country Cousins, Donald and Daisy visit the town of Hundrumpa (Dog's butt), where Daisy's cousin lives. The town is split up into two parts, with one being exclusively inhabited by ducks and the other by dogs. It's pretty much a race war between the two, and this has been going on for 40 years. The main family on the duck-side is the Ankfält (Duckfield) family, and the main dog-family is the Mocksson (I don't even know what that means in a Swedish context) family.
The following ducks are confirmed to be Ankfälts:
Some of these dogs are confirmed to be Mockssons, while others are simply heavily implied to be Mockssons:
These heavily implied Mockssons are given first names:
In the Swedish version of Nuts On The Family Tree, Scrooge is a descendant to Anco Pangco (named Vermund McWildduck on Gilles Maurice's tree). Anco Pangco was a "famous general 200 years ago".
Scrooge's exact relation to ancestor Lure Mix (named Salomon McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) is not stated in the Swedish version.
Finally, Scrooge's ancestor Janne Gyllengrill (named Goldfire McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) owned a restaurant in Digger City during the Gold Rush (presumably the Klondike one). His exact relation to Scrooge isn't stated either.
At least Anco Pangco/Vermund McWildduck seems to be an actual father to one of Scrooge's ancestors. Perhaps he would fit as Anatrone's grandfather?
I got my hands on and read H 2016-150, as it features one of Donald's ancestors. In the Swedish version, he is named "Knalle Anka" (Duck), and is only described as an "ancestor" who lived in 1865. "Ormkaste? Knalle? Are those supposed to be our ancestors?"
The American Civil-war ancestor was presumably born around 1840, and his father Rufus was presumably born circa 1800. I don't know where this Knalle fits into the family tree.
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On another note (my last one for now), I also found that Ian McDuck's story, The Cheapest McDuck, features a lot of background McDucks. They are all presumably distant cousins of Scrooge. Below are the relevant panels:
The only named one, except for Ian, is Angus:
And finally, what is presumably an ancestor is also mentioned: "Gnideon "Gnidde" McDuck was the most financially careful one in our clan's whole history!" "The stingiest, you mean!"
(Gnideon's name comes from "gnidig", which means to be stingy.)
In the Swedish version of Nuts On The Family Tree, Scrooge is a descendant to Anco Pangco (named Vermund McWildduck on Gilles Maurice's tree). Anco Pangco was a "famous general 200 years ago".
Scrooge's exact relation to ancestor Lure Mix (named Salomon McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) is not stated in the Swedish version.
Finally, Scrooge's ancestor Janne Gyllengrill (named Goldfire McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) owned a restaurant in Digger City during the Gold Rush (presumably the Klondike one). His exact relation to Scrooge isn't stated either.
At least Anco Pangco/Vermund McWildduck seems to be an actual father to one of Scrooge's ancestors. Perhaps he would fit as Anatrone's grandfather?
Very cool! Gilles' table, perhaps based on the German translation, places Janna/Goldfire/Guldbrand in Carson, Nevada, one of the centers of the Gold Rush of '49. I found it clever that Gilles' tree put him as a brother of the great-grandfather of many, MANY names, who was there too.
I hope the images in the following posts don't take up too much space!
In Country Cousins, Donald and Daisy visit the town of Hundrumpa (Dog's butt), where Daisy's cousin lives. The town is split up into two parts, with one being exclusively inhabited by ducks and the other by dogs. It's pretty much a race war between the two, and this has been going on for 40 years. The main family on the duck-side is the Ankfält (Duckfield) family, and the main dog-family is the Mocksson (I don't even know what that means in a Swedish context) family.
The following ducks are confirmed to be Ankfälts:
Some of these dogs are confirmed to be Mockssons, while others are simply heavily implied to be Mockssons:
These heavily implied Mockssons are given first names:
Very interesting! I won't weigh in too heavily on the matter outside of stating that I do think that anyone confirmed to be a relative should be included Thank you for these scans - very interesting to see!
In the Swedish version of Nuts On The Family Tree, Scrooge is a descendant to Anco Pangco (named Vermund McWildduck on Gilles Maurice's tree). Anco Pangco was a "famous general 200 years ago".
Scrooge's exact relation to ancestor Lure Mix (named Salomon McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) is not stated in the Swedish version.
Finally, Scrooge's ancestor Janne Gyllengrill (named Goldfire McDuck on Gilles Maurice's tree) owned a restaurant in Digger City during the Gold Rush (presumably the Klondike one). His exact relation to Scrooge isn't stated either.
At least Anco Pangco/Vermund McWildduck seems to be an actual father to one of Scrooge's ancestors. Perhaps he would fit as Anatrone's grandfather?
Another interesting find! I'll leave it to you guys for placement on the tree, but I'm very happy to finally be able to mark these as verified!
Thank you for these contributions, they're a great help!
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!