Short update: I have I MG 464-A and I MG 459-A on the way. Hoping to hear back from another seller regarding I PM 185-1, though I have another possible line to purchase it if they don't get back to me.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Short update: I have I MG 464-A and I MG 459-A on the way. Hoping to hear back from another seller regarding I PM 185-1, though I have another possible line to purchase it if they don't get back to me.
That's great!
Talking about Italian stories, did anyone read "La nascita della fattoria" (I M 14-2) and/or "I segreti di Boscoverde" (I M 17-3)? Appologies if it has already been discussed before, but I couldn't find it. According to the INDUCKS description, Elvira talks about her family/youth. Are there any relatives seen/mentioned in these stories?
My first idea was that this relative is supposed to be the same one as Daisy's grandfather Jason Duck that we have already on the tree, and who is mentioned in W DAD 45-02 (The Apology). Note that both stories were first published within 1 year of each other, both drawn by Bob Gregory, and both written by an unknown writer (so could very well be the same one). However, timewise it does not really fit as the Jason Duck from the Frame-Up story opened his shop in 1849, while Daisy's grandfather is unlikely to have been old enough to be able to open a shop in 1849 (it's more likely her grandfather was born around 1860). So it seems these are different Jason Ducks.
Short update: I have I MG 464-A and I MG 459-A on the way. Hoping to hear back from another seller regarding I PM 185-1, though I have another possible line to purchase it if they don't get back to me.
That's great!
Talking about Italian stories, did anyone read "La nascita della fattoria" (I M 14-2) and/or "I segreti di Boscoverde" (I M 17-3)? Appologies if it has already been discussed before, but I couldn't find it. According to the INDUCKS description, Elvira talks about her family/youth. Are there any relatives seen/mentioned in these stories?
I've ordered both I M 14-2 and IM 17-3. From what I can see, they near definitely have relatives in them, but I won't be able to confirm until they arrive.
I'm in contact with a few sellers, chasing down some leads that should have a few more relatives in them; no guarantees, and some of them do seem to be fairly far back, but I might be able to pick up some new stories if all goes well.
Last note - Still working on I PM 185-1. I have a sale lined up, but they have one other lead that I'm hoping to get sorted before buying.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
The same couple appear in I M 14-2. In the Greek translation, they are named something like Priscilla and Jeremiah MacPaper, but we will have the original name as soon as alquackskey will get his hand on the Italian issue.
The story has no framing device; as such, we go by the premise of the 'Dai Diari delle Antenate' series. So, from that, we know that Paperinella is an ancestor of Daisy's.
She wants to sail to the Indies, which has been her dream since childhood - she and her friend Paperin plan to follow in the footsteps of Marco Polo. A boy whose name she can't remember challenges this, basically saying that Paperin doesn't have a hope.
In adulthood, Paperin has more-or-less given up on the dream, whereas Paperinella still yearns to reach the Indies. The boy still takes potshots at Paperin, but is much kinder to Paperinella, wishing her well before he leaves Genoa.
The rest of the story follows Paperinella's attempts to secure funding for a voyage - eventually, she meets with the Queen of Spain. The queen keeps calling her the wrong name, but does, in the end, provide the necessary resources.
Paperinella waits for Paperin to meet her so they can begin their voyage, but he never shows up. There's a mix-up, and the crew lose the documentation, so they don't actually know who is supposed to be their captain; just that it's a man from Genoa.
Of course, the unnamed man shows up, seizes the opportunity and claims himself as the captain. Paperinella sees that the ships are gone and asks who took them - she's told that it was a man from Genoa with a crafty face. She asks what his name was, and the local informs her that it was Colombo.
Paperin finally shows up and, of course, Daisy chases him down with a broom for costing her her dream.
I'll also suggest that, while it isn't confirmed, Paperin and Paperinella likely married; he's referred to as her 'fidanzato' - which most likely means her fiancé, though it could technically mean boyfriend.
Attached below is a scan of Paperin, as well as one of Paperinella referring to him by name (I also think it's a cute shot that showcases their personalities really well):
Thankfully, unlike the Topostorie 13 issue, there's nothing implying that Donald is related to Paperin in any way.
For clarity on timeline, the story takes place in 1492, as could be expected of a story regarding a Columbus expy.
If there are any further questions on the issue, feel free to ask!
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Also, apologies to double-post, but I had a thought: Would it be worth sticking Admiral Duck's picture in for Andreas?
I know that Admiral's place as a relative is debatable, but I think it's worth considering. Admiral originally appears as a bust in Scrooge's mansion in Christmas on Bear Mountain:
Now, regarding Admiral Duck, the most often cited image of him is this one, used in Johannes A. Grote's tree:
Compare the image with the previously given images of Andreas' hat:
It's far from a perfect match, but I could see it working if you consider the original Admiral Duck as a low-quality background image.
Normally, I'd say to ignore such characters... but as we all know, Rosa felt it worth bringing Admiral Duck back in Sign of the Triple Distelfink:
Barks would use the character as insignificant background fodder, but Rosa? Highly unlikely.
As such, I do think it's worth considering using either Barks' or Rosa's take on Admiral Duck as an image for Andreas - no concrete connection, but absolutely food for thought.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I'll also suggest that, while it isn't confirmed, Paperin and Paperinella likely married; he's referred to as her 'fidanzato' - which most likely means her fiancé, though it could technically mean boyfriend.
Ok, thanks, so Paperinella can be added as well as Daisy's ancestor, and be married to Paperin. Maybe I can provide a new update on the tree in the weekend. There is quite a lot to add by now.
Thankfully, unlike the Topostorie 13 issue, there's nothing implying that Donald is related to Paperin in any way.
It's indeed better that this Paperin is not also Donald's ancestor. Although, by now it doesn't really matter anymore, since the Topostorie 13 already heavily suggests that there are shared ancestors of Donald and Daisy. Which means that any ancestors of those from Topostorie 13 will become shared ancestors of Donald and Daisy as well. I am still thinking what the best way is to solve all that. Maybe I can just somewhere connect the two Duck branches of Donald and Daisy. If that then makes Donald and Daisy seventh or eighth cousins or so, it is not so problematic. The only problem remains I TL 2020-1P, because this story in Topostorie 13 takes place around 1800 which is a bit too recent to make the Donald and Daisy look-a-likes direct ancestors of both Donald and Daisy. At the moment this is "solved" in the tree by making the Daisy look-a-like from that story (Paperita) a direct ancestor of Daisy, while the Donald look-a-like (Paperigo Paulin) is only very distantly related to Donald, but also that is not ideal.
I'll also suggest that, while it isn't confirmed, Paperin and Paperinella likely married; he's referred to as her 'fidanzato' - which most likely means her fiancé, though it could technically mean boyfriend.
Ok, thanks, so Paperinella can be added as well as Daisy's ancestor, and be married to Paperin. Maybe I can provide a new update on the tree in the weekend. There is quite a lot to add by now.
Thankfully, unlike the Topostorie 13 issue, there's nothing implying that Donald is related to Paperin in any way.
It's indeed better that this Paperin is not also Donald's ancestor. Although, by now it doesn't really matter anymore, since the Topostorie 13 already heavily suggests that there are shared ancestors of Donald and Daisy. Which means that any ancestors of those from Topostorie 13 will become shared ancestors of Donald and Daisy as well. I am still thinking what the best way is to solve all that. Maybe I can just somewhere connect the two Duck branches of Donald and Daisy. If that then makes Donald and Daisy seventh or eighth cousins or so, it is not so problematic. The only problem remains I TL 2020-1P, because this story in Topostorie 13 takes place around 1800 which is a bit too recent to make the Donald and Daisy look-a-likes direct ancestors of both Donald and Daisy. At the moment this is "solved" in the tree by making the Daisy look-a-like from that story (Paperita) a direct ancestor of Daisy, while the Donald look-a-like (Paperigo Paulin) is only very distantly related to Donald, but also that is not ideal.
Also, apologies to double-post, but I had a thought: Would it be worth sticking Admiral Duck's picture in for Andreas?
Since we have no picture of Andreas, I would be fine to use this admiral's picture. You give some nice justification for it.
Don't feel under any pressure with the website! If there's anything I can do to help, just let me know
So, regarding Topostorie 13 - the cronocamera requires two things to work: an object from a specific era and a piece of DNA. The object tends to be something that Donald got from Ludwig, and the DNA is a feather each. I can confirm the following: I M 2-4 (Una Semplice Questione D'Arte): Only Donald's feather is used. A Daisy expy is pictured, but not actually present in the story. I TL 2709-6 (Zio Papirone e gli Inviti del Faraone): Both Donald and Daisy's feathers are used. Story has expies of both Donald and Daisy. D 2004-074 (Paperino e il Drago): Both Donald and Daisy's feathers are used. Story has expies of both Donald and Daisy. I TL 2892-5 (Paperino e il Tulipano Impossibile): We don't actually see them getting the feathers for this one - but as mentioned previously, Daisy refers to 'our ancestors' and the story contains expies of both Donald and Daisy, so it can be assumed that both gave feathers. I TL 2921-3 (Paperin Black e l'Isola del Gatto Nero): We don't see the feathers being prepared - but Daisy, in preparation, says that she wants 'our' ancestors to be the protagonists, so it can be assumed that both gave feathers. The story itself contains expies of both Donald and Daisy. I TL 2020-1P (Don Paperigo e il 'Sogno' di Zorro): Both Donald and Daisy's feathers are used. Story has expies of both Donald and Daisy.
The above is only referring to Donald and Daisy, of course; I can look through the stories again for clarity on relatives and the like, if necessary It does, unfortunately, confirm beyond reasonable doubt that, in all of the above stories, the Donald and Daisy expies are each related to their respective counterparts, despite the unfortunate implications.
As for the Admiral, I do like seeing those characters make their way onto the tree; I've always wanted to see Admiral on there! Personally, I'd probably suggest using Rosa's version if you do add him - personally, I prefer Barks' as a take on Andreas due to the hat looking more like Andreas' actual hat, but I don't think there'd really be any grounds to actually include him on the tree if not for Rosa's version.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
Normally, I'd say to ignore such characters... but as we all know, Rosa felt it worth bringing Admiral Duck back in Sign of the Triple Distelfink: Barks would use the character as insignificant background fodder, but Rosa? Highly unlikely.
As such, I do think it's worth considering using either Barks' or Rosa's take on Admiral Duck as an image for Andreas - no concrete connection, but absolutely food for thought.
I think we should avoid pairing up relative names with portraits when there is nothing connecting the two. This tree is meant to be based off of official sources only, with us making educated guesses as to how the relatives from these sources are connected. Just adding background portraits with no evidence supporting such a placement would be nothing but pure speculation.
If Rosa was truly trying to reference Barks' admiral statue in Sign of the Triple Distelfink, he would have drawn the character with the same hat (he would probably have drawn the same statue prop too, rather than a painting). As this is not the case, I am very doubtful that these are the same character. Further connecting them to Andreas is based simply on "he once wore a similar hat", which I don't think is enough.
Normally, I'd say to ignore such characters... but as we all know, Rosa felt it worth bringing Admiral Duck back in Sign of the Triple Distelfink: Barks would use the character as insignificant background fodder, but Rosa? Highly unlikely.
As such, I do think it's worth considering using either Barks' or Rosa's take on Admiral Duck as an image for Andreas - no concrete connection, but absolutely food for thought.
I think we should avoid pairing up relative names with portraits when there is nothing connecting the two. This tree is meant to be based off of official sources only, with us making educated guesses as to how the relatives from these sources are connected. Just adding background portraits with no evidence supporting such a placement would be nothing but pure speculation.
If Rosa was truly trying to reference Barks' admiral statue in Sign of the Triple Distelfink, he would have drawn the character with the same hat (he would probably have drawn the same statue prop too, rather than a painting). As this is not the case, I am very doubtful that these are the same character. Further connecting them to Andreas is based simply on "he once wore a similar hat", which I don't think is enough.
I could have sworn I'd read Rosa having commented on the matter previously, but I can't seem to find anything now. The only source on the two being related is a Wiki, which... yeah, not the best source. It cites no sources, and doesn't actually know of the origin of the first Admiral Duck, which doesn't bode well.
Still, even ignoring the Barks version, I wouldn't say there's no connection at all - Andreas was an uncle that Donald clearly had some level of respect for, and was close enough with him to have both kept his hat and had stories to tell about him. Rosa's Duck was someone that Donald had a framed photo of in his house - maybe I'm getting mixed up, but is that the norm for Rosa? I don't recall any others, though admittedly I never really looked until recently. Given how much of a continuity fiend Rosa is, it feels odd to have a clear photo of someone that's not related to Donald in any way.
Has Rosa ever commented on the photo? I could have sworn that he did, but I can find nothing in my searches. I wonder if there would be a way to ask him?
Honestly, this is down to personal opinion, but it doesn't feel any more arbitrary of a choice than the YD 68-09-23 relatives being merged with the Overnight Hero relatives.
I'm not going to fight tooth and nail to get him included, but I don't think it's entirely baseless, either.
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!