(Personally, as far as my headcanon is concerned, I think the characters are all from the same universe but not necessarily the same time period. So the Hercules folks might be visiting from the distant past, as opposed to being versions contemporary to the 20th/21st-century Ducks, in whose present many stories have, after all, shown the Gods to be retired.)
As for Marvel, I'll admit I made the assumption that it works in canon - still, given Marvel's multiverse shenanigans, I'd count it with the caveat that they're not the 616 versions of the characters
The Marvel Wiki refuses to cover it for reasons unknown to me, so Googlable information is scarce. I believe its Spider-Man is played by the voice actor who voiced him in one of the many Spider-Man animated series, so if anything it would seem to be tied to that universe — but who knows. And yes, certainly it'd count on a multiversal basis either way (hence my confusion at the Marvel Wiki people having no listing for it) — but that's true of anything — and more to the point, just because it's a "valid" parallel universe to the default Marvel continuity, wouldn't have to mean that everyone who exists in the latter exists in that parallel universe; and ergo it would not carry any implications about what the Greco-Roman Gods are like in this Mission Marvel-world-which-we'd-arguably-have-to-equate-with-the-Duckverse — any more than Spooks and Magic has any bearing on what Medusa may or may not be like in the DuckTales 2017 universe.
As for Marvel, I'll admit I made the assumption that it works in canon - still, given Marvel's multiverse shenanigans, I'd count it with the caveat that they're not the 616 versions of the characters
The Marvel Wiki refuses to cover it for reasons unknown to me, so Googlable information is scarce. I believe its Spider-Man is played by the voice actor who voiced him in one of the many Spider-Man animated series, so if anything it would seem to be tied to that universe — but who knows. And yes, certainly it'd count on a multiversal basis either way (hence my confusion at the Marvel Wiki people having no listing for it) — but that's true of anything — and more to the point, just because it's a "valid" parallel universe to the default Marvel continuity, wouldn't have to mean that everyone who exists in the latter exists in that parallel universe; and ergo it would not carry any implications about what the Greco-Roman Gods are like in this Mission Marvel-world-which-we'd-arguably-have-to-equate-with-the-Duckverse — any more than Spooks and Magic has any bearing on what Medusa may or may not be like in the DuckTales 2017 universe.
The main reason I bring up the Marvel multiverse is because there's, to my admittedly limited knowledge, a lot of overlap and crossover. As in, not just that, say, a character from one universe can show up in another or in a bizarrely different context, as is the case with the Ducks - there's an actual, clear explanation as to the fact that there are different universes, and characters often cross between them.
As such, if one Marvel universe is connected to something, the entire multiverse may as well be, simply because there's so much crossover between them.
So, to clarify, I wasn't necessarily making any inferences regarding the Hercules and co of the universe that appears in Phineas & Ferb - but rather, if there's a clear link to the Marvel multiverse, then there's nothing stopping Hercules from any number of other Marvel universes from showing up. Now, I could be misinformed on how Marvel's multiverse works.
But my main point, either way, is that the Marvel multiverse operates differently to the Duckverse; and in the grand scheme of things, if you can connect to one Marvel universe, you can connect to most of them
A bit of a moot point in the grand scheme of things, seeing as there's no actual such connections being made, but it's a concern of mine if transitive property is ever used for the tree
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
The main reason I bring up the Marvel multiverse is because there's, to my admittedly limited knowledge, a lot of overlap and crossover. As in, not just that, say, a character from one universe can show up in another or in a bizarrely different context, as is the case with the Ducks - there's an actual, clear explanation as to the fact that there are different universes, and characters often cross between them. As such, if one Marvel universe is connected to something, the entire multiverse may as well be, simply because there's so much crossover between them.
Well, yes — but as I said, "it's real as a parallel universe" is trivially true as soon as you have even a single story that uses "the infinite multiverse" as a plot point. Every story ever written, or indeed never written, is theoretically accessible to the Ducks if the Multiverse is accepted as a premise, regardless of whether there have been any direct crossovers with a given property — and certainly there have been a smattering of tales and the like which confirmed the existence of sci-fi parallel universes in a Duckian context.
(Indeed DuckTales 2017 itself played with the notion in Let's Get Dangerous, briefly establishing the world of the original DuckTales as existing as a parallel universe to its rebooted continuity: Scrooge and the nephew briefly get zapped into the events of the notorious "sea monster ate my ice cream" scene from Catch As Cash Can. The Fluppy Dogs universe was similarly established as such in an easter egg.)
But again, this is so wide-ranging as to be meaningless. Yes, if Gyro builds the right dimension-crossing gizmo, they could meet anybody from any franchise ever… so what? It has no particular implications on worldbuilding or storytelling or anything. Just because any random fanfic where Magica is secretly Scrooge's long-lost sister is logically, indeed inescapably "real" as a far-flung parallel dimension, does not mean this has any bearing on a tree that purports to document information about The Classic Universe (albeit widely defined).
The main reason I bring up the Marvel multiverse is because there's, to my admittedly limited knowledge, a lot of overlap and crossover. As in, not just that, say, a character from one universe can show up in another or in a bizarrely different context, as is the case with the Ducks - there's an actual, clear explanation as to the fact that there are different universes, and characters often cross between them. As such, if one Marvel universe is connected to something, the entire multiverse may as well be, simply because there's so much crossover between them.
Well, yes — but as I said, "it's real as a parallel universe" is trivially true as soon as you have even a single story that uses "the infinite multiverse" as a plot point. Every story ever written, or indeed never written, is theoretically accessible to the Ducks if the Multiverse is accepted as a premise, regardless of whether there have been any direct crossovers with a given property — and certainly there have been a smattering of tales and the like which confirmed the existence of sci-fi parallel universes in a Duckian context.
(Indeed DuckTales 2017 itself played with the notion in Let's Get Dangerous, briefly establishing the world of the original DuckTales as existing as a parallel universe to its rebooted continuity: Scrooge and the nephew briefly get zapped into the events of the notorious "sea monster ate my ice cream" scene from Catch As Cash Can. The Fluppy Dogs universe was similarly established as such in an easter egg.)
But again, this is so wide-ranging as to be meaningless. Yes, if Gyro builds the right dimension-crossing gizmo, they could meet anybody from any franchise ever… so what? It has no particular implications on worldbuilding or storytelling or anything. Just because any random fanfic where Magica is secretly Scrooge's long-lost sister is logically, indeed inescapably "real" as a far-flung parallel dimension, does not mean this has any bearing on a tree that purports to document information about The Classic Universe (albeit widely defined).
I suppose, again, this comes from my lack of proper knowledge regarding Marvel - my primary experience is with the films, as well as some of the animated media and games. So I could have the wrong idea on this - and if so, my point can be disregarded.
Just as an example, though, you bring up Ducktales '17, in which multiversal travel is shown. However, in that, it's a very big deal; it takes years of research, and once the machine is destroyed, it's implied that it'll take a lot of work before it's ever possible again. Contrast that with Marvel, where there's a lot of multiversal travel, frequent crossover between universes etc... as far as I'm aware, it's not some earth-shattering event in Marvel any more.
Either way, as you say, no major bearing on the tree discussion
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I suppose, again, this comes from my lack of proper knowledge regarding Marvel - my primary experience is with the films, as well as some of the animated media and games. So I could have the wrong idea on this - and if so, my point can be disregarded. Just as an example, though, you bring up Ducktales '17, in which multiversal travel is shown. However, in that, it's a very big deal; it takes years of research, and once the machine is destroyed, it's implied that it'll take a lot of work before it's ever possible again.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure what the feasibility of travelling between universes changes about whether these realities theoretically "exist" or not, you know?
Besides, dimension-hopping, like any other sci-fi trapping, is as easy or difficult as the latest story demands, in Disney comics as in any other big franchise of its type. It could be very difficult in Let's Get Dangerous! because this is necessary for the plot point about Gosalyn's grandfather being functionally lost to work; or any random urn you tip over might turn out to contain a genie who can trivially zap you to A Universe Where You Were Never Born, if you're Don Rosa writing The Duck Who Never Was. I don't recall one offhand but I would think nothing of a ten-pager where Gyro had casually invented a dimension-hopping machine as his outrageous creation of the week. (Compare the variability of time- or space-travel's banality; sometimes Gyro whips up a rocket in an afternoon and has a time machine in his garden shed; other times Scrooge has to invest a fortune in a fairly realistic NASA-style space mission, and Gyro is only just starting to experiment with a dodgy time-machine prototype.)
I suppose, again, this comes from my lack of proper knowledge regarding Marvel - my primary experience is with the films, as well as some of the animated media and games. So I could have the wrong idea on this - and if so, my point can be disregarded. Just as an example, though, you bring up Ducktales '17, in which multiversal travel is shown. However, in that, it's a very big deal; it takes years of research, and once the machine is destroyed, it's implied that it'll take a lot of work before it's ever possible again.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure what the feasibility of travelling between universes changes about whether these realities theoretically "exist" or not, you know?
Besides, dimension-hopping, like any other sci-fi trapping, is as easy or difficult as the latest story demands, in Disney comics as in any other big franchise of its type. It could be very difficult in Let's Get Dangerous! because this is necessary for the plot point about Gosalyn's grandfather being functionally lost to work; or any random urn you tip over might turn out to contain a genie who can trivially zap you to A Universe Where You Were Never Born, if you're Don Rosa writing The Duck Who Never Was. I don't recall one offhand but I would think nothing of a ten-pager where Gyro had casually invented a dimension-hopping machine as his outrageous creation of the week. (Compare the variability of time- or space-travel's banality; sometimes Gyro whips up a rocket in an afternoon and has a time machine in his garden shed; other times Scrooge has to invest a fortune in a fairly realistic NASA-style space mission, and Gyro is only just starting to experiment with a dodgy time-machine prototype.)
You raise a valid point - I suppose I'm probably just a bit biased when it comes to Marvel. I don't know what exactly it is, I just view it semi-differently
Or maybe I'm just very determined to make sure it doesn't end up on the tree
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
You mentioned something about Disney characters being from different time periods. I checked out of this conversation a long time ago, but I do know a thing or two about time periods!
It seems that dimension hopping is just a matter of technology. In an Italian story from 1995 (by Rudy Salvagnini and Giorgio Cavazzano), "our" Scrooge briefly switches places with his doppleganger from a parallel universe in which such technology exists.
Post by Dr Ivo G Bombastus on Jul 4, 2023 15:38:48 GMT
There is also an excellent Byron Erickson Mouse story that involves Mickey being trapped in a parallel universe with alternate reality counterparts of himself and his friends.
Post by Scrooge MacDuck on Jul 4, 2023 17:20:39 GMT
We'll have to spin "the multiverse in Disney comics" off to its own thread at this rate! I'm familiar with the 1995 Cavazzano tale — I read it in French a while ago — but the Erickson story doesn't ring any bells; has it been printed in English? What was the title?
I haven't got access to it myself, but some stories look to me like they could potentially have ancestors - the ones that stand out to me are: I TL 2278-4 (Jess Paperino e il Dollaro d'Oro) I TL 2330-2 (I Paperi della Valle Solitaria) I TL 2454-2 (Paperino Bill e la Danza della Pioggia) I TL 2668-5 (Un Dollaro di Don Oro)
It's hard to gauge properly; on the outside, they do look like lookalike stories, rather than ancestors. That being said, Paperino e gli Antenati del West is in there, and that story is already on the tree, so it's definitely worth bringing these stories up
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!
I've done some more digging, and found the following leads:
I TL 3151-2 supposedly features an ancestor of Ludwig, Paperus Picuzio. I don't know if the story features any other Duck ancestors. The Polish description seems to suggest there's a Venetian Scrooge ancestor as well.
I'm sure that Petronius Paperonius e i Sesterzi di Pippus Augustus is already accounted for, but what may not be documented is that it actually got a sequel, separate from the main Storia e Gloria series. The story is I TL 2569-1, and features a new relative, a Gladstone expy. I don't have the Italian version, but in the Brazilian version, his name is Gastonius and he refers to Petronius Paperonius as his uncle.
I AO 56025-A has an ancestor from whom one of the ducks receives an inheritance.
I AT 120-B has an ancestor from whom (I believe) Donald inherits.
Topolino #2916 may have more relatives unaccounted for; the tree currently has two of the stories documented. I'm fairly certain that the Gaston Meneghin story is about a relative. Beyond that, I'd only be guessing.
I TL 2087-4 is apparently about an ancestor of Scrooge's, as well as having a gallery of ancestors early in the story. I can't find much clear info on it, but it does seem to be the case that Scrooge refers to some relatives in it to some degree.
I TL 531-A supposedly refers to an ancestor of Scrooge's to whom a harpy was indebted.
I don't know the specifics, but Qit/PKOM 11A refers to some ancestors of Paperinik.
There's a series in which Grandpa Beagle tells the Beagle Boys about some famous Beagle ancestors. I don't know if all characters are ancestors or just the Beagles, as I haven't read the stories, but the following feature relevant expies: B 75153a (Scrooge expy) B 75245 (Scrooge and Gyro expies) B 760114 (Scrooge expy) B 760101 (Scrooge expy) B 780387 (Madam Mim expy) B 780253 (Donald, Fethry, Gladstone, Huey, Dewey, Louie and Scrooge expies) B 790022 (Scrooge expy) B 810043 (Not sure if the ducks themselves appear or as 'ancestors') So, for clarity, the above could all just be expies in Grandpa Beagle's stories - I haven't read any of these, so can't confirm.
I'll also bring up the following, lacking certainty: I TL 2144-1 (Most likely just lookalikes, though not sure) I TL 1077-AP (Huey, Dewey and Louie refer to their ancestors, though I don't know if it's meant in a literal sense or an "Our predecessors from that era" sense) I TL 3023-2 (May mention 'superheroic' ancestors of Donald?) I TL 3384-1P (I think it's implied that they're ancestors, though I don't know if there's anything concrete to go off of) I TL 3508-1P (I could be misunderstanding, but it may have relatives of Cleopatra) I TL 2046-1P (I believe he's just a lookalike, but not sure)
Also, I read that I AT 299-B might also mention a Rockerduck ancestor?
Separate, less important note: Apparently the German version of W LVD 1-02 mentions that Ludwig's father is named Hofrat - since he's currently unnamed, may be worth noting.
That's all I could dig up this time - apologies for not knowing much on any of them. If I get the opportunity, I'll see if I can find any
Resident autistic, diabetic duck fan.
I love hearing about bizarre/obscure Disney works - recommendations welcome!