Thanks for all this info, Farmspirit! I had hoped that the Generation Duck blog was trustworthy, but apparently not. But, this is partly why this thread exist: so that we can discard misinformation! I'll clean up the tree and post an update soon enough!
Site like those (or the early works of Gilles Maurice, or other fan made-family trees) are certainly doing an important work, by pointing the attention to stories with obscure relatives, but like real genealogy it is important to no take others' work at face value, but only use it to compare with our own researches. Otherwise you'll end with family trees which go all the way up to Adam and Odin.
There are a couple of second-hand sources (articles, frame stories) that maybe could have more informations, but I don't have those.
Disney Collection: Paperina has two 2-pages articles referring to the o'Fly story. One called "Antenate coraggiose" ("Brave female ancestors"), which mentions various stories from the "Diari delle Antenate" serie, and the other is "Amore e Avventura". Is it possible that this one explain the confused relation (love or blood -wise) between Paperino and Paperina o'Fly?
Una famiglia numerosa is instead a 5-pg article which talks about "Ducks' genealogy". It appears in a book titled Walt Disney presenta: Paperina e le altre, but other articles seems to refer to different female characters. So maybe here there isn't anything new, and it only reiterate Grandma Duck's genealogy? Or maybe it explore more in depth Daisy ancestry.
One frame story that would probably give us more information is Topostorie 42: Alberi... di Famiglia. From the title and the front page, and some brief review online, we can learn that it explore the genealogy side of the ducks (and Gyro and Mickey, staying at what the appeareances claim [and the only other appeareance of Gyro is the Gyro-lookalike Archie o'Fly, so it is possible that they mention a relation. Or he is there simply to give a device to start the plot, like he did in another frame-book])
But it isn't all out of reach. I have 5 books of this frame-serie, and of those 2 have new ancestors informations!
First one is Topostorie 10: Paperi a Venezia. The frame connects the lookalikes from Messer Paperone e le lenti travolgenti. Specifically, $mD claims that he is "one my ancestor from three century ago", and the story is placed in "Venice, XVIII century", right after your mark. The ancestor is called Paperone and he own a glass workshop. He has a nephew called Paperino, who has a girlfriend/fiancée called Paperina. They invented the eyeglasses, and by the end of the story, they are given the monopoly of it by the Doge himself. In the frame-panels after the story, $crooge also says that the Gyro-lookalike, called Archimede, is an "ancestor of Gyro". This character is an inventor and has is own laboratory in Venice.
In Zio Paperone Doge di Venezia there is mention of another ancestor of $mD, but he falls outside the scope of this tree. He is "an ancestor of yours [of $mD] noble and venetian. He is a less known traveller of the XIII century!" "He was called Marco Paperolo and left his memories in a text titled Il Fantastilione!". So yes, $crooge venetian branch has been living there from almost its foundation.
The richer book is Topostorie 13: the P&P Producers: through a cronocamera invented by Gyro, Donald and Daisy project on TV the lives of their ancestors. Each story has an ancestor of Donald (the first), or ancestors of Donald and Daisy (every other). For the time-limitations of this tree, only one story is for sure after 1700, and possibly another.
The not so sure story is Paperin Black e l'isola del Gatto Nero. The initial blurb states it happened "Porto Seguro, Carribean Sea, some century ago". It may have been during the Golden Age of piracy (1660-1726). The unlucky pirate Paperin Black is the probable ancestor of Donald, while Paperinetta, the niece of the governor Paperoñes, is the one of Daisy. Paperin tries to kidnap her, but instead end up saving her from other pirates and saving the treasure of the governor too. He is rewarded with becoming the official fiancè of Paperinetta. They also invented a kind of mongolfier, and so Paperin quit the pirate job, and open a shop "Paperin Black flying ships", with the dida saying he moved to the explorations of the skies, where he striked luck.
The other story is Don Paperigo e il "sogno" di Zorro. "At the start of 1800" in the city of Los Paperes (which is Los Angeles, as we see from the map and since a caption says that a district of the city will become Hollywood in the future). The ancestors are Paperigo Paulin and Paperita, respectively nephew and niece of Alejandro Paperòn y Paperones. Paperigo is also uncle of Quy, Quò, and Quà, and cousin of Gastòn de la Suerte y Fortuña, who is also nephew of Alejandro. Gastòn and Paperigo compete for the love of Paperita. By the end Paperigo win. Alejandro owned a big pistachio's fazenda, but by the end the viceroy revokes it because there is a gold mine underneath.
Yep, I knew of [Disraeli Duck's] English name, although I kinda wonder why they went with the surname "Duck" here instead of something unique, and why they chose "Disraeli" too. Perhaps our dear Ramapith could tell us?
As it turns out, I don't need to: That Duckfan is correct in his reasoning. The historic Gladstone and Disraeli were amazing rivals, and this story developed out of my pal Lars Jensen's interest in giving our Gladstone his own grandly frustrating Disraeli.
As for "Duck," it's simply the alliteration that works. (And "Disraeli Duck" is his true name as created; we shouldn't call him "Disraeli Grebe" just because a Danish localization translates to that. The USA and internal Egmont original versions both call him Disraeli Duck, which is really as his creator intended.)
Yep, I knew of [Disraeli Duck's] English name, although I kinda wonder why they went with the surname "Duck" here instead of something unique, and why they chose "Disraeli" too. Perhaps our dear Ramapith could tell us?
As it turns out, I don't need to: That Duckfan is correct in his reasoning. The historic Gladstone and Disraeli were amazing rivals, and this story developed out of my pal Lars Jensen's interest in giving our Gladstone his own grandly frustrating Disraeli.
As for "Duck," it's simply the alliteration that works. (And "Disraeli Duck" is his true name as created; "Disraeli Grebe" can't be his true name simply because a localization translates to that...)
Thanks! I wasn't sure whether the English names came first or not. Still, it's a little weird that his surname would be Duck when he's not related to Donald --- yeah, I know that Duck is supposed to be the Jones of that universe, but the juxtaposition still looks strange to me.
Last Edit: Aug 21, 2022 8:07:50 GMT by juicymcduck
The other day I learned that Cornelius Coot's parents shows up in L'esilio dei van Coot (published in Topolino #3483). I don't think they are given names, though. Also, an uncle of Cornelius also appears. Anyways, I'll move Gertrude Ganzenlever to be Miranda's mother instead.
Also, a duck named Perceval de Roquerduc in Italian shows up in the story. He appears to be a Rockerduck-ancestor, although his surname is spelled differently. I don't think he's explicitly said to be John D.'s great-grandfather (which I believe Seamus Rockerduck was), so he probably fits best as Seamus Rockerduck's brother.
The other day I learned that Cornelius Coot's parents shows up in L'esilio dei van Coot (published in Topolino #3483). I don't think they are given names, though. Also, an uncle of Cornelius also appears. Anyways, I'll move Gertrude Ganzenlever to be Miranda's mother instead.
Also, a duck named Perceval de Roquerduc in Italian shows up in the story. He appears to be a Rockerduck-ancestor, although his surname is spelled differently. I don't think he's explicitly said to be John D.'s great-grandfather (which I believe Seamus Rockerduck was), so he probably fits best as Seamus Rockerduck's brother.
They actually have names: the father is called Jeroen Van Coot and the mother is called Els, also Jeroen's brother is named Marteen.
Perceval is not stated to be related to Rockerduck, but the whole story is set in 1804, so we couldn't have clues anyways. Perceval's father, named Honoré, is said to be one of the wealthiest ducks in New York.
I am going to post HQ pictures for all of these characters tomorrow, so that you can include them in your tree.
Oh and, in the story in which Deleterio appears, Humphrey Gokart (I don't know why, but I was sure his first name was "Honkey") states that he has 5 brothers in total.
"Honkey Gokart," like "Jubal Cock," was the character's original intended English name—but created by a non-English-speaker who didn't understand how it would come across to an American or Brit. ("Honkey," in this case, is an ethnic slur for a white person...)
Also like Jubal, his modern name was decided upon in the late 1990s.
Two things. First off, I've been thinking about Elvira Coot's grandparents. I've merged Miranda and her husband from S 83099 with Elvira's paternal grandparents, Cornelius Coot and his wife. However, now that I think about it, it seems more likely that Miranda and her husband are Elvira's maternal grandparents, Hortensia and Donaldo. The only problem with this is that the Miranda/Hortensia's first names don't match. However, their physical appearance match much better than Cornelius and his wife.
Second off, I managed to find and watch Your Host, Donald Duck on the internet. It turns out that the No Hunting-Grandpappy has a name: Rufus Duck! The Duck-surname means that he and his family should be moved to the Duck-branch of the tree... the question is where.
When talking about Rufus, Donald says "We owe a lot of thanks to those early pioneers. When they trekked their way out here to ol' California [...]" This tells us that Rufus, his wife, and their newborn were early pioneers in California. I did some quick googling, and it appears that this would set this story around the 1830s or 1840s. If that were true, then the newborn baby would presumably be either Danial (Donald's great-grandfather) or one of his siblings. This in turn would mean that Rufus should occupy the same position as Anatrone.
Two things. First off, I've been thinking about Elvira Coot's grandparents. I've merged Miranda and her husband from S 83099 with Elvira's paternal grandparents, Cornelius Coot and his wife. However, now that I think about it, it seems more likely that Miranda and her husband are Elvira's maternal grandparents, Hortensia and Donaldo. The only problem with this is that the Miranda/Hortensia's first names don't match. However, their physical appearance match much better than Cornelius and his wife.
Second off, I managed to find and watch Your Host, Donald Duck on the internet. It turns out that the No Hunting-Grandpappy has a name: Rufus Duck! The Duck-surname means that he and his family should be moved to the Duck-branch of the tree... the question is where.
When talking about Rufus, Donald says "We owe a lot of thanks to those early pioneers. When they trekked their way out here to ol' California [...]" This tells us that Rufus, his wife, and their newborn were early pioneers in California. I did some quick googling, and it appears that this would set this story around the 1830s or 1840s. If that were true, then the newborn baby would presumably be either Danial (Donald's great-grandfather) or one of his siblings. This in turn would mean that Rufus should occupy the same position as Anatrone.
Thoughts on this?
Woah, woah, woah... Grandpappy has a name?!? Rufus Duck? I love it! I'm kind of sad that he can't be Gertrude Gadwall's father, but I love that he has a name and even a backstory! In fact, now that I think about it, this felleris definitely related to Moby Duck (from a personality standpoint). I don't know anything about Anatrone Duck, so it's hard for me to comment on his position in the tree. Could he be retconned into a step-great-grandfather so as to not mess with Rufus's place on the tree? Crockett was explicitly a great-great-great-grandfather, if I'm remembering correctly, so his position on the tree should be fixed.
No matter what I say or do, know that Jesus loves you.
Woah, woah, woah... Grandpappy has a name?!? Rufus Duck? I love it! I'm kind of sad that he can't be Gertrude Gadwall's father, but I love that he has a name and even a backstory! In fact, now that I think about it, this felleris definitely related to Moby Duck (from a personality standpoint). I don't know anything about Anatrone Duck, so it's hard for me to comment on his position in the tree. Could he be retconned into a step-great-grandfather so as to not mess with Rufus's place on the tree? Crockett was explicitly a great-great-great-grandfather, if I'm remembering correctly, so his position on the tree should be fixed.
I also wish Rufus would fit as Gertrude Gadwall's father. Design-wise it makes perfect sense! His placement was one of my main gripes with Gilles Maurice's tree back in the day. But lo and behold, now I have to change it around so that my Rufus-placement is identical to his!
Anatrone is never given a surname, but he is explicitly said to be the father of Donald's great-grandfather. In other words, Anatrone would have to be either Danial Duck's father (the place now occupied by Rufus), Clinton Coot's father (occupied by Cornelius Coot), Titus "Dingus" McDuck's father (occupied by Don Pepe/Ebenezer McDuck), or Roger/MacPatus/Mac Paperson O'Drake's father (which is currently vacant). I really don't want to just throw out characters if I don't have to, but luckily Anatrone seems to fit as Roger O'Drake's father.
Site like those (or the early works of Gilles Maurice, or other fan made-family trees) are certainly doing an important work, by pointing the attention to stories with obscure relatives, but like real genealogy it is important to no take others' work at face value, but only use it to compare with our own researches. Otherwise you'll end with family trees which go all the way up to Adam and Odin.
I've been thinking about this lately. Especially in relation to the current placement of Ludwig von Drake as Elvira Coot's mother's sister's son. This is based solely on what I've read other people on this forum say, and this statement supposedly comes from the German translation of Duckburg, USA. It would be nice to have proper confirmation of this. Would anyone be able to provide me with a scan of the German version?