Ducktales 2017

[bn2010]

Oct 2, 2023 10:53:25 GMT entut1 said:

I recently read part of the DuckTales artbook released last year. It's not difficult to find online and I think it might inform the debates going on here. Here's a few pages!

I read this book. You won't find anything special new there. Except perhaps the fate of Donald's parents. I wonder how the authors were going to explain their absence in the first three seasons if they appeared in the fourth.

Most of the book is devoted to the technical side of the creation of the show: art, character designs, graphics, soundtrack. And they also talked about the ideas they had put into rebut.

[entut1]

Oct 2, 2023 15:37:53 GMT bn2010 said:

I read this book. You won't find anything special new there. Except perhaps the fate of Donald's parents. I wonder how the authors were going to explain their absence in the first three seasons if they appeared in the fourth.

Most of the book is devoted to the technical side of the creation of the show: art, character designs, graphics, soundtrack. And they also talked about the ideas they had put into rebut.

I think apparently the deluxe edition of the book (which contains more interviews, but I don't have it in hand, I only have the digital version of the normal edition) they are alive for some reason working for some reason at Grandma Duck's farm. There's also something about a planned but scrapped S4 tease to be the discovery of a new continent called New Scroogea for some reason.

[donaldistducktoons]

Oct 2, 2023 10:53:25 GMT entut1 said:

I recently read part of the DuckTales artbook released last year. It's not difficult to find online and I think it might inform the debates going on here. Here's a few pages!

www.deviantart.com/davealvarez/art/Gizmoduck-to-the-Rescue-520124384

This would have been much better if they took this style and the story was much better, but oh well. By the way, for Donald, they used Don Cheadle for the interview, not Tony Anselmo, which speaks volumes for how much respect they had for the original sources and the regular voice actors, as well as the character Donald Duck himself.

[donaldistducktoons]

Oct 2, 2023 16:20:50 GMT entut1 said:

Oct 2, 2023 15:37:53 GMT bn2010 said:

I read this book. You won't find anything special new there. Except perhaps the fate of Donald's parents. I wonder how the authors were going to explain their absence in the first three seasons if they appeared in the fourth.

Most of the book is devoted to the technical side of the creation of the show: art, character designs, graphics, soundtrack. And they also talked about the ideas they had put into rebut.

I think apparently the deluxe edition of the book (which contains more interviews, but I don't have it in hand, I only have the digital version of the normal edition) they are alive for some reason working for some reason at Grandma Duck's farm. There's also something about a planned but scrapped S4 tease to be the discovery of a new continent called New Scroogea for some reason.

They used the fourth season so they could focus on Webby, as the boys had three separate seasons. And honestly, what could they do in the fourth season, considering how they did the disastrous third season? Nothing special except that you mentioned some trip to one place, and maybe related to Grandma Duck Farm. The only thing is that Merlock will be the season villain of the fourth season, since he is the only one from the movie that did not appear in the reboot.

By the way, we're talking about Ducktales writers who don't have much writing talent, and realistically I've seen a lot of fans and read their stories that are much better than the current stories that were shown in the Ducktales reboot. You probably have great ideas for it that would work out much better than the Ducktales writers' suggestions. And I said before, after all, I don't believe Angones word, he even said in the last interview that his favorite character is Doofus Drake. Sorry about this, I was just stating my opinion.

[bn2010]

Oct 4, 2023 1:13:27 GMT donaldistducktoons said:

Oct 2, 2023 16:20:50 GMT entut1 said:

I think apparently the deluxe edition of the book (which contains more interviews, but I don't have it in hand, I only have the digital version of the normal edition) they are alive for some reason working for some reason at Grandma Duck's farm. There's also something about a planned but scrapped S4 tease to be the discovery of a new continent called New Scroogea for some reason.

They used the fourth season so they could focus on Webby, as the boys had three separate seasons. And honestly, what could they do in the fourth season, considering how they did the disastrous third season? Nothing special except that you mentioned some trip to one place, and maybe related to Grandma Duck Farm. The only thing is that Merlock will be the season villain of the fourth season, since he is the only one from the movie that did not appear in the reboot.

By the way, we're talking about Ducktales writers who don't have much writing talent, and realistically I've seen a lot of fans and read their stories that are much better than the current stories that were shown in the Ducktales reboot. You probably have great ideas for it that would work out much better than the Ducktales writers' suggestions. And I said before, after all, I don't believe Angones word, he even said in the last interview that his favorite character is Doofus Drake. Sorry about this, I was just stating my opinion.

Did Angones say that? Can I have a link to the interview? I want to see it for myself.

[donaldistducktoons]

Oct 4, 2023 9:18:12 GMT bn2010 said:

Oct 4, 2023 1:13:27 GMT donaldistducktoons said:

They used the fourth season so they could focus on Webby, as the boys had three separate seasons. And honestly, what could they do in the fourth season, considering how they did the disastrous third season? Nothing special except that you mentioned some trip to one place, and maybe related to Grandma Duck Farm. The only thing is that Merlock will be the season villain of the fourth season, since he is the only one from the movie that did not appear in the reboot.

By the way, we're talking about Ducktales writers who don't have much writing talent, and realistically I've seen a lot of fans and read their stories that are much better than the current stories that were shown in the Ducktales reboot. You probably have great ideas for it that would work out much better than the Ducktales writers' suggestions. And I said before, after all, I don't believe Angones word, he even said in the last interview that his favorite character is Doofus Drake. Sorry about this, I was just stating my opinion.

Did Angones say that? Can I have a link to the interview? I want to see it for myself.

This interview and panel about The Art of Ducktales: www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqJpw3eJTRc link

I listened to it, but it's pretty disappointing if you ask me. They just proved that they don't really care about the original sources.

[djnyr]

Thank you for posting those entries from the series artbook, entut1; they’re extremely illuminating, in several ways. They reaffirm my conviction that I’ve been correct (and fair) in measuring the show against the yardstick of Barks and Rosa’s comics, and in critiquing it for jettisoning the unique ambiance and “world” of those comics and replacing it with a superhero pastiche. The artbook entries show Youngberg and Angones, the showrunners themselves, repeatedly citing Barks and Rosa as their primary source material; they weren’t drawing on the wider world of wilder Disney comics, in which (particularly in Italy) there are admittedly more fantastical elements, including superheroes like Duck Avenger and supervillains like Rebo. Instead, they explicitly state that they were trying to adapt Barks and Ross; however, they were utterly uncomprehending of the unique elements that gave Barks and Rosa’s stories their particular appeal—which was evident from the show itself, but which is confirmed by those character descriptions in the artbook entries.

So, according to Angones and Youngberg, the "core of what we know as Scrooge from not just the original series but also the Carl Barks comics, and very Don Rosa's...Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" is that "he can succeed because he's willing to risk anything, because he's so hyperconfident in his abilities that he knows that if he lost all his money tomorrow, he could roll up his sleeves and start again from scratch and figure out a way to get in back." Really? There is nothing in Barks to suggest that; Barks’ Scrooge is always terrified of losing his fortune, forever breaking into hilariously overdramatic wailings about becoming a “poor old man”. Now, in Barks’ stories he’s usually able to snap out of these fits, but they’re a key part of his lovability; his paranoia about losing his wealth makes him vulnerable, and demonstrates that his money causes him as much grief as anything else—as Donald puts it, “your billions are a pain in the neck!” This is a big part of why Barks’ Scrooge is human and endearing despite his outrageous rapacity; his fortune doesn’t insulate him from reality and from common humanity the way many real-life fortunes do—instead, it makes him as harried and flustered and frustrated as any genuine poor old man.  When you make him "hyperconfident," he loses that human quality and that lovability, as we saw happen on the series.


Nor is there really any basis in Rosa for describing hyperconfidence and recklessness as Scrooge’s defining traits; even in some of Rosa’s more over-the-top “super-Scrooge” sequences, like his casual handling of the grizzly bear and his flight with the eagle in “King of the Klondike”, or his outmaneuvering of the African wildlife in “Terror of the Transvaal”, the point of those scenes is not so much that Scrooge is being powered by boundless self-confidence or that he’s consciously being reckless, but that he’s so comically and intensely focused on wealth-hunting (as in “Klondike”) or on revenging a theft (as in “Transvaal”) that he simply has little awareness of the danger he’s in. To look at those scenes and come away with the conclusion that “Scrooge is super-reckless and super-confident in his own awesomeness” indicates to me a very surface-level reading of the “Life and Times.” Again, it might be different if Angones was explaining that he was reinventing Scrooge as a super-confident risk-taker, but he claims that this presentation is derived from the core of the character as seen in Barks and Rosa--a statement staggering in its cluelessness.  

[donaldistducktoons]

Oct 5, 2023 1:26:42 GMT djnyr said:

Thank you for posting those entries from the series artbook, entut1; they’re extremely illuminating, in several ways. They reaffirm my conviction that I’ve been correct (and fair) in measuring the show against the yardstick of Barks and Rosa’s comics, and in critiquing it for jettisoning the unique ambiance and “world” of those comics and replacing it with a superhero pastiche. The artbook entries show Youngberg and Angones, the showrunners themselves, repeatedly citing Barks and Rosa as their primary source material; they weren’t drawing on the wider world of wilder Disney comics, in which (particularly in Italy) there are admittedly more fantastical elements, including superheroes like Duck Avenger and supervillains like Rebo. Instead, they explicitly state that they were trying to adapt Barks and Ross; however, they were utterly uncomprehending of the unique elements that gave Barks and Rosa’s stories their particular appeal—which was evident from the show itself, but which is confirmed by those character descriptions in the artbook entries.

So, according to Angones and Youngberg, the "core of what we know as Scrooge from not just the original series but also the Carl Barks comics, and very Don Rosa's...Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" is that "he can succeed because he's willing to risk anything, because he's so hyperconfident in his abilities that he knows that if he lost all his money tomorrow, he could roll up his sleeves and start again from scratch and figure out a way to get in back." Really? There is nothing in Barks to suggest that; Barks’ Scrooge is always terrified of losing his fortune, forever breaking into hilariously overdramatic wailings about becoming a “poor old man”. Now, in Barks’ stories he’s usually able to snap out of these fits, but they’re a key part of his lovability; his paranoia about losing his wealth makes him vulnerable, and demonstrates that his money causes him as much grief as anything else—as Donald puts it, “your billions are a pain in the neck!” This is a big part of why Barks’ Scrooge is human and endearing despite his outrageous rapacity; his fortune doesn’t insulate him from reality and from common humanity the way many real-life fortunes do—instead, it makes him as harried and flustered and frustrated as any genuine poor old man.  When you make him "hyperconfident," he loses that human quality and that lovability, as we saw happen on the series.


Nor is there really any basis in Rosa for describing hyperconfidence and recklessness as Scrooge’s defining traits; even in some of Rosa’s more over-the-top “super-Scrooge” sequences, like his casual handling of the grizzly bear and his flight with the eagle in “King of the Klondike”, or his outmaneuvering of the African wildlife in “Terror of the Transvaal”, the point of those scenes is not so much that Scrooge is being powered by boundless self-confidence or that he’s consciously being reckless, but that he’s so comically and intensely focused on wealth-hunting (as in “Klondike”) or on revenging a theft (as in “Transvaal”) that he simply has little awareness of the danger he’s in. To look at those scenes and come away with the conclusion that “Scrooge is super-reckless and super-confident in his own awesomeness” indicates to me a very surface-level reading of the “Life and Times.” Again, it might be different if Angones was explaining that he was reinventing Scrooge as a super-confident risk-taker, but he claims that this presentation is derived from the core of the character as seen in Barks and Rosa--a statement staggering in its cluelessness.  

I agree with you, what you said, and with your earlier criticisms, which is that the creators of Ducktales 2017 did not even care about the original sources, but used it superficially only to bait the fans of Carl Barks and Don Rosa comics. It's funny to say how they wanted to improve Donald Duck, and they only made him worse, because first they took all his personality and gave it to his nephews and his sister, and secondly, he takes care of his family and wants his own at best, he's always Butt-Monkey or not to say some clown or court jester of his family, which is pretty lame, and thirdly, his nephews (except maybe Huey) didn't even think about him, which contrasts not only with the comics, but with earlier cartoons.

They took the worst from the classic Jack Hannah shorts, although Donald had his elements, as well as the worst from the Don Rosa comics, although there were moments when Donald Duck had great moments like Quest for the Kalevala or the two Three Caballeros comics. I know his nephews said that no matter what their uncle goes through, he will be the best superhero to them. Not to mention how in The Legend of The Three Caballeros, Donald, in addition to being a jerk, was also a truly benevolent and hard-working person devoted to adventures and his best friends, as well as devoted to his Daisy, which tells that the creators of that series (especially Matt Danner) have brought the best of comics and classic shorts together and truly respect the original sources. Even Donald cured his anger problem in a good way, not that his psychiatrist is his neighbor Jones, who is his worst rival in the comics.

As for Scrooge, yes exactly, Ducktales 2017 made him too big and regardless of the mistakes he made, he didn't lose anything. It's not like in The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck when he burned down an African village for wealth and drove his sisters away and barely reconciled with Matilda in "A Letter from Home". And why make a superhero out of him, when he was already a superhero in the OG Ducktales as Masked Mallard and in the Topolino comics as Masked Tophat? By the way, Scrooge is much better as a miser and a bastard duck than as a family man.

I'm sure the creators of Ducktales 2017 knew about the Duck Avenger, but they probably would have messed that up too, given how the other characters were. Or they would give the role of Duck Avenger to their version of Della Duck, considering how much that series raised feminism through female characters to a great level. Fortunately European Disney does not allow the use of their characters without their permission. The only thing from Ducktales 2017 I'm really thankful for is that it made me nostalgic for the old series and reading Donald Duck comics more than I used to.

[bn2010]

#9 Bentina Beakley

Have you noticed that there is not a single ordinary peaceful woman in this show. All as one, strong and confident, able to give a thrashing to enemies. Whatever you say, feminism makes itself felt.

When the original heroine showed hidden depths (for example, Maid of the myth), it was really amazing. And it didn't look incredible, because we knew very little about her past. But we know enough about the character of the remake. Her exploits are not impressive at all. She's a retired spy. Of course, she is able to scatter enemies. Yes, she is already in old age, but Scrooge is generally 150 years old. Age doesn't affect anything in this show. Therefore, Beakley has nothing to impress the viewer with.

In addition, the first 2 seasons had a strange tendency to put her right in all situations. No, she correctly advised Scrooge to get closer to his family and helped resolve the contradictions in Shadow War. But she is far from perfect and she has something to reproach.

First of all, the fate to which she subjected Webby. Keep in mind, I do not condemn a woman specifically for ten years of incarceration of her granddaughter in a mansion with a break for harsh training. As it turned out in the final, it was a forced measure. Beakley had a choice: find out the identities of the FOWL leaders or save the girl. She chose the latter, but every action has consequences. She had to hide Webby from prying eyes and teach her to defend herself. What is the problem? The problem is that the show itself does not perceive Beakley's actions as a "necessary evil." It seems as if she did everything not only correctly, but also well. Beakley has never shown pity to her granddaughter for her hard life. You might argue that she allowed Webby to join HDL on adventures. Yes, she did. But not so much out of sympathy, but because Scrooge is there to protect her. Again, there is a reassessment of Scrooge.

Let's not forget about Timephoon. The problem is not that Bickley teaches Della how to raise children (after all, she has experience, and Donald is not around). And the advice that sometimes children should be strict is correct in itself. You can't let them do everything. But this does not negate the hypocrisy of Beakley. When Webby ran away from the mansion without asking in the pilot episode (and lied to her grandmother about her whereabouts), Bickley reacted too good-naturedly. She didn't even have an educational conversation with her granddaughter. Beakly expressed her dissatisfaction and nothing more. However, the third season significantly improved the situation. Bickley's mistakes matter there and are criticized by other characters. Bickley was rightly accused of lying (the harp of Nirvana and the finale), of inadequate measures of combat training (Inpossibin. However, Webby's former training sessions were not affected there in any way).

Also, her escape and solo invasion of the FOWL base was a big mistake. And for all these mistakes, Beakley truly repents. Thus, the third season reveals this character well, humanizes him (despite the fact that she appears only in eight episodes). The authors have done a good job here, I admit it.

As a result, Beakley is different from many other characters in the show. She has a weak start, but good development in the last season.

[bn2010]

#10. Lena Sabrewing (dee "De Spell"). Special thanks to Matilda and Donaldistducktoons for providing information about Minima De Spell.

This character has two prototypes at once. The Shadow of Magica from OG Ducktales, a tragic monster who rebelled against his creator and became angrier than her (so she had to team up with Scrooge). And Minima, the real niece of Magica from the comics. She became friends with Webby, but at the same time maintained a good relationship with her aunt. For her part, she grumbled at her niece, but that was the end of it.

I must admit, I really like Lina. The creators very competently mixed the Minima and the Shadow, took the best from them. From the Shadow Lina got the origin story and the resulting hatred of Magica caused by abuse. From Minima, she got a kind heart and a desire to make friends.

Lina's story arc is very good. In the first season, she gradually gets closer to Webby, begins to doubt her aunt's plan. Then the evil nature of Magica is revealed to her. Lina is fully aware of the terrible situation she is in. She has to obey under threat of death. Nevertheless, in the finale, Lina sacrifices herself for the sake of a new family. It was, perhaps, the saddest moment of the animated series. In general, the first season is the most tragic. Subsequent seasons develop the theme of how Lina gets rid of the control of Magic. In "Killmotor" she sees her aunt for the first time as a simple weak woman and ceases to be afraid of her. And in "The Phantom and the Sorceress", she learns to resist her even when she has regained her power. This is where Lina's story arc ends and then she plays a secondary role.

Are there any downsides to her story. Well, nothing is perfect. You can always find fault with something. In this case, the authors focused so much on the topic of Lina's liberation from Magica that they had little time left for anything else. We were not shown how Lina first came to the Sabrewing house and how she was adopted, although this is an important change in her life. Lina didn't interact much with HDL (except Huey. They spent enough time together in the "Sword of Swanstatine"). The months in the mirror dimension had almost no effect on her. The creators generally used to laugh more at the tragedy of loneliness (Webby, Della). Although perhaps it was the studio that ordered them to reduce the drama. Whether it's right or not, decide for yourself.

It is also interesting that having stopped being afraid of Magica, Lina actually stopped taking it seriously. In "Killmotor" she let her go instead of telling Scrooge about her. And in "Phantom and the Sorceress" she, having already twisted her aunt, simply threw her away, instead of breaking her staff or, again, taking her to Scrooge and imprisoning her in a dime. It's commendable, of course, that you're not afraid of her anymore. But Magika is still a powerful sorceress and causes harm to other people. It is better to isolate her from society. But more on that later.

Despite these shortcomings, Lina is probably the best character. She has a plausible character (it is noticeable that she has lived on the street for a long time), good development. Although there is more merit of the first season.

[donalddisneyfan]

Oct 4, 2023 1:04:15 GMT donaldistducktoons said:

Oct 2, 2023 10:53:25 GMT entut1 said:

I recently read part of the DuckTales artbook released last year. It's not difficult to find online and I think it might inform the debates going on here. Here's a few pages!

www.deviantart.com/davealvarez/art/Gizmoduck-to-the-Rescue-520124384

This would have been much better if they took this style and the story was much better, but oh well. By the way, for Donald, they used Don Cheadle for the interview, not Tony Anselmo, which speaks volumes for how much respect they had for the original sources and the regular voice actors, as well as the character Donald Duck himself.

Okay, you do realize budget would've been a problem trying to do the original style like that? Like looking at how the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts, Chip and Dale Park Life, Rescue Rangers 2022, and the Disney Junior Mickey shows took huge liberties with the art styles and animation, the old style used in the 1987 DuckTales probably would be too expensive to replicate 100%. Sure there's Legend of the Three Caballeros, but the animation on that show in terms of movement is also pretty stiff so it's either the animation takes liberties with art style for more fluid animation or it uses the same art style 100% but has to settle for stiffer movement as a result.

And I sincerely doubt them not interviewing Tony Anselmo for the art book was a sign of disrespect. Frank Angones did say that the Disney higher ups don't allow the Sensational Six voice actors (Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille) to get publicity for specific projects when he explained why Donald's VA wasn't in the theme song sing along from December 2016. Here's that link: suspendersofdisbelief.tumblr.com/post/154619493516/the-cast-sing-along-video-didnt-reveal-all-the


It could easily be the Disney higher ups refused to let Anselmo be interviewed for the book (Don Cheadle probably was allowed since that's more of him voicing Donald when he has a normal voice, like how Lesile Denison did Donald's normal sounding voice in Donald's Dream Voice and Donald's Dilemma rather than the official real deal).


Heck in general, Disney never does give too much publicity on the Sensational Six voices with Roadster Racers only mentioning the guest stars in its press releases and Mickey Mouse Funhouse only mentioning Harvey Gullen as Funny among the main cast with no attention or mention given to Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo/Daniel Ross, or Tress MacNeille/Debra Wilson. The fact Robrock being cast as Minnie's new voice was only found out by a new episode of Roadster Racers rather than a big press release as well as Ross replacing Anselmo as Donald in Roadster Racers and Wilson replacing MacNeille as Daisy in Mickey Mouse Funhouse season 2 and Mickey Saves Christmas being only revealed via episode credits or from themselves rather than a big press release.

So DuckTales 2017 is hardly the only show that doesn't give publicity to the Sensational Six voices.


Even so, it is shown they DID invite Tony to the show's premiere party from 2017 (here: www.facebook.com/jennifer.stearnsklocki/posts/pfbid0N4usRpqEyo2gziC2PJoJ7eX774nCEk4d31ZQ7cNfpBvBp4U6nCAU5TbSVYkoRVZbl ) so clearly they do respect him, it's just that the Disney higher ups don't allow any Sensational Six VA publicity.


And where in that Gallery Nucleus panel for The Art of DuckTales was it remotely indicated the show's creative team had no respect for the source material they were adapting? Like come on if they really didn't have any respect for what they were adapting, why would they have been been involved in the reboot at all? Like, do you honestly not believe them when mentioning how they grew up as fans of the source material when they were younger?

And isn't stating the writers for the 2017 reboot have no writing talent a little mean? Like come on, that's kinda harsh.

[donalddisneyfan]

Oct 5, 2023 1:26:42 GMT djnyr said:

Thank you for posting those entries from the series artbook, entut1; they’re extremely illuminating, in several ways. They reaffirm my conviction that I’ve been correct (and fair) in measuring the show against the yardstick of Barks and Rosa’s comics, and in critiquing it for jettisoning the unique ambiance and “world” of those comics and replacing it with a superhero pastiche. The artbook entries show Youngberg and Angones, the showrunners themselves, repeatedly citing Barks and Rosa as their primary source material; they weren’t drawing on the wider world of wilder Disney comics, in which (particularly in Italy) there are admittedly more fantastical elements, including superheroes like Duck Avenger and supervillains like Rebo. Instead, they explicitly state that they were trying to adapt Barks and Ross; however, they were utterly uncomprehending of the unique elements that gave Barks and Rosa’s stories their particular appeal—which was evident from the show itself, but which is confirmed by those character descriptions in the artbook entries.

So, according to Angones and Youngberg, the "core of what we know as Scrooge from not just the original series but also the Carl Barks comics, and very Don Rosa's...Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" is that "he can succeed because he's willing to risk anything, because he's so hyperconfident in his abilities that he knows that if he lost all his money tomorrow, he could roll up his sleeves and start again from scratch and figure out a way to get in back." Really? There is nothing in Barks to suggest that; Barks’ Scrooge is always terrified of losing his fortune, forever breaking into hilariously overdramatic wailings about becoming a “poor old man”. Now, in Barks’ stories he’s usually able to snap out of these fits, but they’re a key part of his lovability; his paranoia about losing his wealth makes him vulnerable, and demonstrates that his money causes him as much grief as anything else—as Donald puts it, “your billions are a pain in the neck!” This is a big part of why Barks’ Scrooge is human and endearing despite his outrageous rapacity; his fortune doesn’t insulate him from reality and from common humanity the way many real-life fortunes do—instead, it makes him as harried and flustered and frustrated as any genuine poor old man.  When you make him "hyperconfident," he loses that human quality and that lovability, as we saw happen on the series.


Nor is there really any basis in Rosa for describing hyperconfidence and recklessness as Scrooge’s defining traits; even in some of Rosa’s more over-the-top “super-Scrooge” sequences, like his casual handling of the grizzly bear and his flight with the eagle in “King of the Klondike”, or his outmaneuvering of the African wildlife in “Terror of the Transvaal”, the point of those scenes is not so much that Scrooge is being powered by boundless self-confidence or that he’s consciously being reckless, but that he’s so comically and intensely focused on wealth-hunting (as in “Klondike”) or on revenging a theft (as in “Transvaal”) that he simply has little awareness of the danger he’s in. To look at those scenes and come away with the conclusion that “Scrooge is super-reckless and super-confident in his own awesomeness” indicates to me a very surface-level reading of the “Life and Times.” Again, it might be different if Angones was explaining that he was reinventing Scrooge as a super-confident risk-taker, but he claims that this presentation is derived from the core of the character as seen in Barks and Rosa--a statement staggering in its cluelessness.  

Out of curiosity, do you think there's ever been an animated production that truly handled Scrooge well? Like given you're not a fan of how both the 1987 and 2017 DuckTales shows handled him, what do you think of how other animated stuff handles him like Sport Goofy in Soccermania, Mickey's Christmas Carol, Mickey Mouse Works, House of Mouse, Mickey's Once Upon a Christmas, Mickey's Twice Upon a Christmas, Kingdom Hearts games, Paul Rudish Mickey Mouse shorts, and Scrooge McDuck and Money?

[donaldistducktoons]

Oct 6, 2023 20:24:56 GMT donalddisneyfan said:

Oct 4, 2023 1:04:15 GMT donaldistducktoons said:

www.deviantart.com/davealvarez/art/Gizmoduck-to-the-Rescue-520124384

This would have been much better if they took this style and the story was much better, but oh well. By the way, for Donald, they used Don Cheadle for the interview, not Tony Anselmo, which speaks volumes for how much respect they had for the original sources and the regular voice actors, as well as the character Donald Duck himself.

Okay, you do realize budget would've been a problem trying to do the original style like that? Like looking at how the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts, Chip and Dale Park Life, Rescue Rangers 2022, and the Disney Junior Mickey shows took huge liberties with the art styles and animation, the old style used in the 1987 DuckTales probably would be too expensive to replicate 100%. Sure there's Legend of the Three Caballeros, but the animation on that show in terms of movement is also pretty stiff so it's either the animation takes liberties with art style for more fluid animation or it uses the same art style 100% but has to settle for stiffer movement as a result.

And I sincerely doubt them not interviewing Tony Anselmo for the art book was a sign of disrespect. Frank Angones did say that the Disney higher ups don't allow the Sensational Six voice actors (Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille) to get publicity for specific projects when he explained why Donald's VA wasn't in the theme song sing along from December 2016. Here's that link: suspendersofdisbelief.tumblr.com/post/154619493516/the-cast-sing-along-video-didnt-reveal-all-the


It could easily be the Disney higher ups refused to let Anselmo be interviewed for the book (Don Cheadle probably was allowed since that's more of him voicing Donald when he has a normal voice, like how Lesile Denison did Donald's normal sounding voice in Donald's Dream Voice and Donald's Dilemma rather than the official real deal).


Heck in general, Disney never does give too much publicity on the Sensational Six voices with Roadster Racers only mentioning the guest stars in its press releases and Mickey Mouse Funhouse only mentioning Harvey Gullen as Funny among the main cast with no attention or mention given to Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo/Daniel Ross, or Tress MacNeille/Debra Wilson. The fact Robrock being cast as Minnie's new voice was only found out by a new episode of Roadster Racers rather than a big press release as well as Ross replacing Anselmo as Donald in Roadster Racers and Wilson replacing MacNeille as Daisy in Mickey Mouse Funhouse season 2 and Mickey Saves Christmas being only revealed via episode credits or from themselves rather than a big press release.

So DuckTales 2017 is hardly the only show that doesn't give publicity to the Sensational Six voices.


Even so, it is shown they DID invite Tony to the show's premiere party from 2017 (here: www.facebook.com/jennifer.stearnsklocki/posts/pfbid0N4usRpqEyo2gziC2PJoJ7eX774nCEk4d31ZQ7cNfpBvBp4U6nCAU5TbSVYkoRVZbl ) so clearly they do respect him, it's just that the Disney higher ups don't allow any Sensational Six VA publicity.


And where in that Gallery Nucleus panel for The Art of DuckTales was it remotely indicated the show's creative team had no respect for the source material they were adapting? Like come on if they really didn't have any respect for what they were adapting, why would they have been been involved in the reboot at all? Like, do you honestly not believe them when mentioning how they grew up as fans of the source material when they were younger?

And isn't stating the writers for the 2017 reboot have no writing talent a little mean? Like come on, that's kinda harsh.

I don't understand why you always have to defend the indefensible? XD But I'll be honest, you're very persistent. Looks like you didn't understand my messages properly again, like you didn't read the previous comments about the mistakes the Ducktales reboot made. And I know that you haven't answered my specific questions yet, but it doesn't matter. Why don't you just admit you're wrong? Is it such a big problem? But I will answer what you answered.

First, in terms of style, it's a lie. Disney has enough money to make quality 2D animated series and movies, but it is more focused on 3D, and using simple styles like Cal-Art is cheaper for them, so for those reasons, they are pushing to use it, as well as other companies that are similar working. The team that worked on the Ducktales reboot got a lot of money to make that series and they used most of it to hire famous actors instead of the current voice actors and of course to promote and advertise Ducktales. That series was much more promoted than Gravity Falls, but then again, Gravity Falls turned out to be more popular than the Ducktales reboot. So the problem is not in the budget but in the spending of money and the quality of the team. Besides, when Ducktales was made in 1987, the budget for that series was barely received, and it was less than what Disney shows get today. Keep in mind that Disney was on the verge of bankruptcy during that period unlike today.

Mickey Mouse Cartoons by Paul Rudish did have a somewhat grotesque style, but still people respected the original versions and materials and reshaped them in their own ways. Ducks in that series have round heads and flat beaks. What's in the Ducktales reboot? There ducks have blunt beaks and square heads, especially in child characters and it's really bad. And they justify it by basing it on Carl Barks comics and Milt Kahl's style? You can see that they had no idea, because even in the Milt Kahl animation, the characters had good expressiveness and round heads, and in the Carl Barks comics they had round heads, straight beaks and good cheeks, which gave them some flair and that's how it is in most cartoons movies and comics. I don't mind a change of style that can be tried, but the style in Ducktales 2017 especially with the characters is poor and lame and too simple and it just doesn't work. However, Ducktales 2017 did a great job with the background scenes which are beautiful, and they also had good animation. Still bad, compared to The Legend of The Three Caballeros who did much better, although that series didn't even get money for the budget, so you can see the huge difference. Watching Lot3c really feels like you're watching classic Disney, while watching Ducktales 2017 you feel like you're watching some Cal-Art cartoons, although the style in Ducktales 2017 is certainly not Cal-Art.

Second, Donald Duck is the most important character to the creation of the Duckverse and to many of the things we love to watch and read. Throwing him out is a big disrespect in my opinion, and he deserves to be the main character. Protecting him like Mickey as part of the mascot is idiotic in my opinion. Especially today when you have plenty of material to make many Donald Duck cartoons and video games out of. Although I know it stems from Roy Disney's decision not to let the Famous Six be the main characters in Disney Afternoon until they released the Goof Troop. However, the creators of OG Ducktales still put Donald in the Navy so they had an excuse why Donald was not present in the series, even though he was supposed to be featured in quite a few episodes. Although, on the other hand, Tony Anselmo only came to act, and before him they wanted to take Clarence Nash, but he died. Luckily Jack Hannah found a replacement for Nash so Anselmo replaced him. Why didn't the Ducktales reboot find some excuse, but at the beginning it was said that Donald would be part of the main cast, if Disney didn't allow it? It seemed to me that Disney allowed it, but that the Ducktales reboot team wanted to use another actor instead of Anselmo, and Disney didn't allow it.

Third, I don't care about Mickey even though I like cartoons and comics about him, I was more interested in Donald Duck whether he would be the main character or not, and he could have done well there, because there was no Mickey. But it happened that Donald was more of a side character than a main character. Even in moments where he could have his role and see his sister, they (the writers) sent him to the moon. One is at the beginning when in the first episode Anselmo really played Donald well, but it seems that they sped him up afterwards so he became incomprehensible. And they didn't allow him to improve his text where he could speak more clearly, so Anselmo clashed with the Ducktales team, primarily with Angones. It seems that you are not familiar with this interview: www.youtube.com/watch?v=THN5IeWM7Sc

Fourth, Lesile Dennison was only substituting a normal voice for Donald, but the main star was still Clarence Nash, so there was no substitution. Why couldn't they have called Anselmo next to Don Cheadle? Probably for the reason that Anselmo is unhappy that they did not respect him and that they did not allow him to correct the text on which he can speak well in his duck voice. He succeeded like that when The Legend of The Three Caballeros was filmed and there they let him work his way and respected him. And Donald was really a major character in The Legend of The Three Caballeros, where you could see him all the time. Or you haven't had a chance to watch that series yet? Just sad how Disney treated that series. Yes, Ross replaced Anselmo, but it was bad. If they want to hire a real actor, let them hire this man: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFSXTEz6_9k

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqJpw3eJTRc Here's a link to watch when they held a panel about the release of The Art of Ducktales. 

When I mentioned original material, I was referring to the Donald Duck comics, specifically the Carl Barks comics that Ducktales just spun off in their own way and only referenced. And it can be seen that they didn't even like OG Ducktales, but created it in their own way, which wouldn't be bad, if they didn't have to change all the original characters. The only thing they did well in my opinion was how they did Daisy and Gladstone and bringing Della, everything else was either bad or barely good or no comment, in a negative sense. And how they respected the original characters, suffice it to say how they mocked the original versions of Donald's nephews and the Junior Woodchucks group through Huey and how they turned Gyro into a total jerk, as opposed to the version in OG Ducktales and comics where Gyro is always in a pleasant mood. Oh Donald, not to mention how he fared. They could have found better people instead of the current cast who cared more about Darkwing Duck and Disney Afternoon than comics. Paul Rudish, Matt Danner and certainly the European writers and artists of Donald Duck comics would be a much better choice than Angones and crew. Angones blocks people who criticize him. Maybe it's too hard and strict what I said, but I told the truth, their writing is on the level you and I would write fanfiction stories. You can't give a person who can't sing to continue singing, it only leads to bad things.

Sorry if you don't like what I said, I said my thing and answered you and you continue to defend Disney's stupid decisions as well as the Ducktales team who have no idea about the Duckverse. It's fine if you like Ducktales 2017 and that means a lot to you, but respect those of us who don't like it or think this reboot is the best because it's not, and I've told you that ten times before.

[donalddisneyfan]

Oct 6, 2023 23:38:43 GMT donaldistducktoons said:

Oct 6, 2023 20:24:56 GMT donalddisneyfan said:

I don't understand why you always have to defend the indefensible? XD But I'll be honest, you're very persistent. Looks like you didn't understand my messages properly again, like you didn't read the previous comments about the mistakes the Ducktales reboot made. And I know that you haven't answered my specific questions yet, but it doesn't matter. Why don't you just admit you're wrong? Is it such a big problem? But I will answer what you answered.

First, in terms of style, it's a lie. Disney has enough money to make quality 2D animated series and movies, but it is more focused on 3D, and using simple styles like Cal-Art is cheaper for them, so for those reasons, they are pushing to use it, as well as other companies that are similar working. The team that worked on the Ducktales reboot got a lot of money to make that series and they used most of it to hire famous actors instead of the current voice actors and of course to promote and advertise Ducktales. That series was much more promoted than Gravity Falls, but then again, Gravity Falls turned out to be more popular than the Ducktales reboot. So the problem is not in the budget but in the spending of money and the quality of the team. Besides, when Ducktales was made in 1987, the budget for that series was barely received, and it was less than what Disney shows get today. Keep in mind that Disney was on the verge of bankruptcy during that period unlike today.

Mickey Mouse Cartoons by Paul Rudish did have a somewhat grotesque style, but still people respected the original versions and materials and reshaped them in their own ways. Ducks in that series have round heads and flat beaks. What's in the Ducktales reboot? There ducks have blunt beaks and square heads, especially in child characters and it's really bad. And they justify it by basing it on Carl Barks comics and Milt Kahl's style? You can see that they had no idea, because even in the Milt Kahl animation, the characters had good expressiveness and round heads, and in the Carl Barks comics they had round heads, straight beaks and good cheeks, which gave them some flair and that's how it is in most cartoons movies and comics. I don't mind a change of style that can be tried, but the style in Ducktales 2017 especially with the characters is poor and lame and too simple and it just doesn't work. However, Ducktales 2017 did a great job with the background scenes which are beautiful, and they also had good animation. Still bad, compared to The Legend of The Three Caballeros who did much better, although that series didn't even get money for the budget, so you can see the huge difference. Watching Lot3c really feels like you're watching classic Disney, while watching Ducktales 2017 you feel like you're watching some Cal-Art cartoons, although the style in Ducktales 2017 is certainly not Cal-Art.

Second, Donald Duck is the most important character to the creation of the Duckverse and to many of the things we love to watch and read. Throwing him out is a big disrespect in my opinion, and he deserves to be the main character. Protecting him like Mickey as part of the mascot is idiotic in my opinion. Especially today when you have plenty of material to make many Donald Duck cartoons and video games out of. Although I know it stems from Roy Disney's decision not to let the Famous Six be the main characters in Disney Afternoon until they released the Goof Troop. However, the creators of OG Ducktales still put Donald in the Navy so they had an excuse why Donald was not present in the series, even though he was supposed to be featured in quite a few episodes. Although, on the other hand, Tony Anselmo only came to act, and before him they wanted to take Clarence Nash, but he died. Luckily Jack Hannah found a replacement for Nash so Anselmo replaced him. Why didn't the Ducktales reboot find some excuse, but at the beginning it was said that Donald would be part of the main cast, if Disney didn't allow it? It seemed to me that Disney allowed it, but that the Ducktales reboot team wanted to use another actor instead of Anselmo, and Disney didn't allow it.

Third, I don't care about Mickey even though I like cartoons and comics about him, I was more interested in Donald Duck whether he would be the main character or not, and he could have done well there, because there was no Mickey. But it happened that Donald was more of a side character than a main character. Even in moments where he could have his role and see his sister, they (the writers) sent him to the moon. One is at the beginning when in the first episode Anselmo really played Donald well, but it seems that they sped him up afterwards so he became incomprehensible. And they didn't allow him to improve his text where he could speak more clearly, so Anselmo clashed with the Ducktales team, primarily with Angones. It seems that you are not familiar with this interview: www.youtube.com/watch?v=THN5IeWM7Sc

Fourth, Lesile Dennison was only substituting a normal voice for Donald, but the main star was still Clarence Nash, so there was no substitution. Why couldn't they have called Anselmo next to Don Cheadle? Probably for the reason that Anselmo is unhappy that they did not respect him and that they did not allow him to correct the text on which he can speak well in his duck voice. He succeeded like that when The Legend of The Three Caballeros was filmed and there they let him work his way and respected him. And Donald was really a major character in The Legend of The Three Caballeros, where you could see him all the time. Or you haven't had a chance to watch that series yet? Just sad how Disney treated that series. Yes, Ross replaced Anselmo, but it was bad. If they want to hire a real actor, let them hire this man: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFSXTEz6_9k

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqJpw3eJTRc Here's a link to watch when they held a panel about the release of The Art of Ducktales. 

When I mentioned original material, I was referring to the Donald Duck comics, specifically the Carl Barks comics that Ducktales just spun off in their own way and only referenced. And it can be seen that they didn't even like OG Ducktales, but created it in their own way, which wouldn't be bad, if they didn't have to change all the original characters. The only thing they did well in my opinion was how they did Daisy and Gladstone and bringing Della, everything else was either bad or barely good or no comment, in a negative sense. And how they respected the original characters, suffice it to say how they mocked the original versions of Donald's nephews and the Junior Woodchucks group through Huey and how they turned Gyro into a total jerk, as opposed to the version in OG Ducktales and comics where Gyro is always in a pleasant mood. Oh Donald, not to mention how he fared. They could have found better people instead of the current cast who cared more about Darkwing Duck and Disney Afternoon than comics. Paul Rudish, Matt Danner and certainly the European writers and artists of Donald Duck comics would be a much better choice than Angones and crew. Angones blocks people who criticize him. Maybe it's too hard and strict what I said, but I told the truth, their writing is on the level you and I would write fanfiction stories. You can't give a person who can't sing to continue singing, it only leads to bad things.

Sorry if you don't like what I said, I said my thing and answered you and you continue to defend Disney's stupid decisions as well as the Ducktales team who have no idea about the Duckverse. It's fine if you like Ducktales 2017 and that means a lot to you, but respect those of us who don't like it or think this reboot is the best because it's not, and I've told you that ten times before.

Okay, is it a bad thing for me to defend the show? You keep acting as if my defenses aren't valid at all and that I shouldn't defend the show ever.

Guess we can agree to disagree on opinions of the show's animation then. Do you think it would've been any better or worse if the show used the Fabien Mense designs which did try to use some more classic Disney elements while also making it its own thing: fabienmense.myportfolio.com/ducktales

And where does the idea the crew didn't like the original DuckTales come from? Sure they changed things, but that shouldn't be the immediate indication of that. It's too extreme of a reaction. Like, which timestamps in The Art of DuckTales' panel show they didn't like the source mateial? I saw that panel and nowhere was it implied they didn't care for the source material the same way those executives involved with the Animaniacs reboot were with the original Animaniacs.

Yes, I'm aware of that interview with Tony Anselmo, you don't have to keep beating that nail in. But you aren't acknowledging that they actually DID improve in working with Tony as the show went on. Tony himself says in these interviews (here: youtu.be/mag6i_2Gs1U?si=y-g6iIKPOWUHpmz2&t=1693 and tv.creativetalentnetwork.com/who-said-what at 24:39) that the issue was rectified in seasons 2-3 where they stopped speeding him up and actually let him do the lines the way he wanted so it clearly wasn't an issue that persisted for the entire run. Yes I am not denying Legend of the Three Caballeros gave Tony better treatment from day one, but I'm just trying to point out the relationship between Tony and the DuckTales crew did improve as the series went on.

And you don't need to use Legend of the Three Caballeros to keep putting down DuckTales 2017.

And on your comment on thinking Tony Anselmo was only brought back as Donald in DuckTales 2017 because the Disney higher ups interfered definitely isn't true. Like if the DuckTales 2017 crew wanted to 100% replace Tony period, the Disney higher ups clearly wouldn't care seeing how they allowed Roadster Racers to replace Tony Anselmo with Daniel Ross as Donald.

What do you mean when stating they call Clarence Nash next to Leslie Denison when they give Donald a normal voice in the 1940s shorts, but not when they do the same with Don Cheadle giving Donald a normal voice?

On the subject of recasting, how come you don't bat an eye about Chris Diamantopalous replacing Bret Iwan for the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts? Like if you're gonna say Don Cheadle doing Donald's normal voice for only two episodes is disrespectful to Tony Anselmo, then surely it should be seen as disrespectful to Bret Iwan that he got replaced by a big name actor for the Rudish shorts.

You never addressed the point where I mention why Tony wasn't interviewed for the art book. I stated that it was because Disney has a policy where the Sensational Six voice actors (like Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille) are not allowed to get publicity for specific projects. It's why you never see them involved in interviews for the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts, Mickey Mouse Funhouse, and Roadster Racers.

Heck looking at this press release for Mickey Mouse Funhouse, notice how they only mention Harvey Gullen as Funny (the only new character in the main cast) while completely ignoring the other main cast members who voice the Sensational Six like Bret Iwan, Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille/Debra Wilson: www.dgepress.com/disneybrandedtelevision/pressrelease/oh-boy-disney-junior-orders-second-season-of-whimsical-animated-series-mickey-mouse-funhouse/

And when did Angones ever block people who criticize him? Besides, how should a creator deal with criticism of their show (there is the old saying "take pride in your work")? Like what makes you think Matt Danner doesn't block people if they have criticism with Legend of the Three Caballeros either (I heard from a friend that Danner blocked them after they made a criticism about how Legend of the Three Caballeros handled Daisy)?

I'm only defending DuckTales 2017, not the Disney higher ups (I can agree Disney higher ups don't always make the right calls). And I am merely just trying to explain their perspective on the matter and showing it wasn't just the creative team saying, "Hey, let's convince Disney to let us run the show and then let us make it a middle finger to everything it adapts". It's way more nuanced than that behind the scenes.

[Matilda]

Just jumping in to make a process comment. I personally did not like DuckTales 17, and I tend to agree with djnyr’s critique. I stopped watching the show at a certain point. BUT I think that donaldistducktoons is being needlessly rude to donalddisneyfan. It’s silly to say “I’ve told you this ten times before” about one’s overall evaluation of a show, as opposed to a simple statement of fact. And I truly hope that “why don’t you just admit you’re wrong” was meant to be read as humor, but, really, that’s not helpful. Or humorous. I’m impressed that donalddisneyfan doesn’t fire back.

I’m interested to read defenses of the show, or of lots of other stuff I don’t like, such as the Italian Donald-as-superhero comics. If I didn’t want that, I wouldn’t be active on the forum, I’d just talk to the mirror.