Post by donaldistducktoons on Oct 7, 2023 20:32:33 GMT
First, in terms of style, it's a lie. Disney has enough money to make quality 2D animated series and movies, but it is more focused on 3D, and using simple styles like Cal-Art is cheaper for them, so for those reasons, they are pushing to use it, as well as other companies that are similar working. The team that worked on the Ducktales reboot got a lot of money to make that series and they used most of it to hire famous actors instead of the current voice actors and of course to promote and advertise Ducktales. That series was much more promoted than Gravity Falls, but then again, Gravity Falls turned out to be more popular than the Ducktales reboot. So the problem is not in the budget but in the spending of money and the quality of the team. Besides, when Ducktales was made in 1987, the budget for that series was barely received, and it was less than what Disney shows get today. Keep in mind that Disney was on the verge of bankruptcy during that period unlike today.
Mickey Mouse Cartoons by Paul Rudish did have a somewhat grotesque style, but still people respected the original versions and materials and reshaped them in their own ways. Ducks in that series have round heads and flat beaks. What's in the Ducktales reboot? There ducks have blunt beaks and square heads, especially in child characters and it's really bad. And they justify it by basing it on Carl Barks comics and Milt Kahl's style? You can see that they had no idea, because even in the Milt Kahl animation, the characters had good expressiveness and round heads, and in the Carl Barks comics they had round heads, straight beaks and good cheeks, which gave them some flair and that's how it is in most cartoons movies and comics. I don't mind a change of style that can be tried, but the style in Ducktales 2017 especially with the characters is poor and lame and too simple and it just doesn't work. However, Ducktales 2017 did a great job with the background scenes which are beautiful, and they also had good animation. Still bad, compared to The Legend of The Three Caballeros who did much better, although that series didn't even get money for the budget, so you can see the huge difference. Watching Lot3c really feels like you're watching classic Disney, while watching Ducktales 2017 you feel like you're watching some Cal-Art cartoons, although the style in Ducktales 2017 is certainly not Cal-Art.
Second, Donald Duck is the most important character to the creation of the Duckverse and to many of the things we love to watch and read. Throwing him out is a big disrespect in my opinion, and he deserves to be the main character. Protecting him like Mickey as part of the mascot is idiotic in my opinion. Especially today when you have plenty of material to make many Donald Duck cartoons and video games out of. Although I know it stems from Roy Disney's decision not to let the Famous Six be the main characters in Disney Afternoon until they released the Goof Troop. However, the creators of OG Ducktales still put Donald in the Navy so they had an excuse why Donald was not present in the series, even though he was supposed to be featured in quite a few episodes. Although, on the other hand, Tony Anselmo only came to act, and before him they wanted to take Clarence Nash, but he died. Luckily Jack Hannah found a replacement for Nash so Anselmo replaced him. Why didn't the Ducktales reboot find some excuse, but at the beginning it was said that Donald would be part of the main cast, if Disney didn't allow it? It seemed to me that Disney allowed it, but that the Ducktales reboot team wanted to use another actor instead of Anselmo, and Disney didn't allow it.
Third, I don't care about Mickey even though I like cartoons and comics about him, I was more interested in Donald Duck whether he would be the main character or not, and he could have done well there, because there was no Mickey. But it happened that Donald was more of a side character than a main character. Even in moments where he could have his role and see his sister, they (the writers) sent him to the moon. One is at the beginning when in the first episode Anselmo really played Donald well, but it seems that they sped him up afterwards so he became incomprehensible. And they didn't allow him to improve his text where he could speak more clearly, so Anselmo clashed with the Ducktales team, primarily with Angones. It seems that you are not familiar with this interview: www.youtube.com/watch?v=THN5IeWM7Sc
Fourth, Lesile Dennison was only substituting a normal voice for Donald, but the main star was still Clarence Nash, so there was no substitution. Why couldn't they have called Anselmo next to Don Cheadle? Probably for the reason that Anselmo is unhappy that they did not respect him and that they did not allow him to correct the text on which he can speak well in his duck voice. He succeeded like that when The Legend of The Three Caballeros was filmed and there they let him work his way and respected him. And Donald was really a major character in The Legend of The Three Caballeros, where you could see him all the time. Or you haven't had a chance to watch that series yet? Just sad how Disney treated that series. Yes, Ross replaced Anselmo, but it was bad. If they want to hire a real actor, let them hire this man: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFSXTEz6_9k
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqJpw3eJTRc Here's a link to watch when they held a panel about the release of The Art of Ducktales.
When I mentioned original material, I was referring to the Donald Duck comics, specifically the Carl Barks comics that Ducktales just spun off in their own way and only referenced. And it can be seen that they didn't even like OG Ducktales, but created it in their own way, which wouldn't be bad, if they didn't have to change all the original characters. The only thing they did well in my opinion was how they did Daisy and Gladstone and bringing Della, everything else was either bad or barely good or no comment, in a negative sense. And how they respected the original characters, suffice it to say how they mocked the original versions of Donald's nephews and the Junior Woodchucks group through Huey and how they turned Gyro into a total jerk, as opposed to the version in OG Ducktales and comics where Gyro is always in a pleasant mood. Oh Donald, not to mention how he fared. They could have found better people instead of the current cast who cared more about Darkwing Duck and Disney Afternoon than comics. Paul Rudish, Matt Danner and certainly the European writers and artists of Donald Duck comics would be a much better choice than Angones and crew. Angones blocks people who criticize him. Maybe it's too hard and strict what I said, but I told the truth, their writing is on the level you and I would write fanfiction stories. You can't give a person who can't sing to continue singing, it only leads to bad things.
Sorry if you don't like what I said, I said my thing and answered you and you continue to defend Disney's stupid decisions as well as the Ducktales team who have no idea about the Duckverse. It's fine if you like Ducktales 2017 and that means a lot to you, but respect those of us who don't like it or think this reboot is the best because it's not, and I've told you that ten times before.
Guess we can agree to disagree on opinions of the show's animation then. Do you think it would've been any better or worse if the show used the Fabien Mense designs which did try to use some more classic Disney elements while also making it its own thing: fabienmense.myportfolio.com/ducktales
And where does the idea the crew didn't like the original DuckTales come from? Sure they changed things, but that shouldn't be the immediate indication of that. It's too extreme of a reaction. Like, which timestamps in The Art of DuckTales' panel show they didn't like the source mateial? I saw that panel and nowhere was it implied they didn't care for the source material the same way those executives involved with the Animaniacs reboot were with the original Animaniacs.
Yes, I'm aware of that interview with Tony Anselmo, you don't have to keep beating that nail in. But you aren't acknowledging that they actually DID improve in working with Tony as the show went on. Tony himself says in these interviews (here: youtu.be/mag6i_2Gs1U?si=y-g6iIKPOWUHpmz2&t=1693 and tv.creativetalentnetwork.com/who-said-what at 24:39) that the issue was rectified in seasons 2-3 where they stopped speeding him up and actually let him do the lines the way he wanted so it clearly wasn't an issue that persisted for the entire run. Yes I am not denying Legend of the Three Caballeros gave Tony better treatment from day one, but I'm just trying to point out the relationship between Tony and the DuckTales crew did improve as the series went on.
And you don't need to use Legend of the Three Caballeros to keep putting down DuckTales 2017.
And on your comment on thinking Tony Anselmo was only brought back as Donald in DuckTales 2017 because the Disney higher ups interfered definitely isn't true. Like if the DuckTales 2017 crew wanted to 100% replace Tony period, the Disney higher ups clearly wouldn't care seeing how they allowed Roadster Racers to replace Tony Anselmo with Daniel Ross as Donald.
What do you mean when stating they call Clarence Nash next to Leslie Denison when they give Donald a normal voice in the 1940s shorts, but not when they do the same with Don Cheadle giving Donald a normal voice?
On the subject of recasting, how come you don't bat an eye about Chris Diamantopalous replacing Bret Iwan for the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts? Like if you're gonna say Don Cheadle doing Donald's normal voice for only two episodes is disrespectful to Tony Anselmo, then surely it should be seen as disrespectful to Bret Iwan that he got replaced by a big name actor for the Rudish shorts.
You never addressed the point where I mention why Tony wasn't interviewed for the art book. I stated that it was because Disney has a policy where the Sensational Six voice actors (like Bret Iwan, Russi Taylor/Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille) are not allowed to get publicity for specific projects. It's why you never see them involved in interviews for the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts, Mickey Mouse Funhouse, and Roadster Racers.
Heck looking at this press release for Mickey Mouse Funhouse, notice how they only mention Harvey Gullen as Funny (the only new character in the main cast) while completely ignoring the other main cast members who voice the Sensational Six like Bret Iwan, Kaitlyn Robrock, Bill Farmer, Tony Anselmo, and Tress MacNeille/Debra Wilson: www.dgepress.com/disneybrandedtelevision/pressrelease/oh-boy-disney-junior-orders-second-season-of-whimsical-animated-series-mickey-mouse-funhouse/
And when did Angones ever block people who criticize him? Besides, how should a creator deal with criticism of their show (there is the old saying "take pride in your work")? Like what makes you think Matt Danner doesn't block people if they have criticism with Legend of the Three Caballeros either (I heard from a friend that Danner blocked them after they made a criticism about how Legend of the Three Caballeros handled Daisy)?
I'm only defending DuckTales 2017, not the Disney higher ups (I can agree Disney higher ups don't always make the right calls). And I am merely just trying to explain their perspective on the matter and showing it wasn't just the creative team saying, "Hey, let's convince Disney to let us run the show and then let us make it a middle finger to everything it adapts". It's way more nuanced than that behind the scenes.
Although I don't like the Ducktales reboot style, I really enjoyed the art done by Khion Mendoza (she's active on Tumblr and Twitter) and was a member of the Ducktales teams and is responsible for the good animation. She is not without talent and she really worked from the heart and it shows. Unlike Sam King, whose art is extremely bad (like it was drawn by preschoolers, not artists), and I've seen other works of hers and I don't like them. And she, along with Youngberg and Angones, contributed to the bad ending of Ducktales, not to mention the scandal related to Ducktales fandom and LGBT zines. And you can see the difference. Khion is from the Philippines by the way and yes, even though I don't like the Ducktales reboot, I enjoy her art and you can just see that sensitivity in her drawings. While I don't like Dana Terrance, I do admit that she wrote the first season well while she was still working on Ducktales before she left and I respect that. The interaction between Webby and Len was good. And I know that you love her because you watch her series. Not everyone is without talent, but when you are dealing with material that is several decades old, then you should keep in mind what kind of material you are dealing with, and not look at it superficially.
Yes, Fabien Manse's style would be great for a Ducktales reboot and it would make more sense than what they showed us. Related to the original, but it's different and it's a shame they didn't use it. I also like how Donald's nephews wore different types of hats which is much better than having only one triplet to wear a hat. Although I would have preferred if they had taken styles from Dave Alvarez and the original plan from Joe Pitt where Ducktales would have been based more on the Carl Barks and Don Rosa comics than how Angones and crew did it. And there Scrooge and Donald would be the main characters, not HDL and Webby. And before you start saying that children should be the main characters because of the children's audience because it's trendy, I'll just tell you that children enjoy watching Donald more than his nephews. Since you mentioned Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and Mickey Mouse Funhouse, which I personally don't like, you should know that kids watch it the most. And even before, cartoons were watched by both adults and children.
You're right about Disney protecting the voice actors, and that Anselmo couldn't participate in the interview because The Art of Ducktales was published by Dark Horse, but that doesn't justify why they used Don Cheadle instead of Anselmo for the interview. Let's face it, Don Cheadle is not a bad actor and it's not a problem that he played Donald, the problem is that he used his usual voice as he usually talks, and not that he has any charisma and sensitivity. And the change of Donald's voice was used in serious moments when it shouldn't have been. Because like Donald's voice is unintelligible. They shouldn't have put that moment in Shadow War, because Donald turned out great with his voice, this with the Barks Modeler and voice change is idiotic and I know it's a reference from the classic short "Donald's Dream Voice", but in that classic short they used in a real way, when really no one understood Donald except Daisy. In Ducktales, it seems more like no one understands him, which is even weirder. Yes, the voice change was also in the episode "Quack Pack" which is even worse, because Donald didn't even want to have another voice, he just wanted a peaceful family, and the interaction with Goofy could have been without the voice change, because Tony Anselmo and Bill Farmer are a great match. Donald's introduction to Daisy in Louie's Eleven turned out really ok, yes there was another actor singing, but that was ok, because we know Donald sings terribly and that's how Daisy sees him.
Ok, they fixed his treatment in Ducktales, I can agree with that, but that doesn't justify why he ended up as a supporting character and not the main one. And in the episode "The Trickering" as a Halloween special, Donald's interaction with his sister was awful, a total opposite of the episode Last Christmas and The First Adventure, in which the interactions between Donald and Della as children were ok. And it can be seen that the interaction between the actors is not quite as great as it seems. Anselmo admitted in an interview (the one I sent you the link) that he did not feel comfortable while filming Ducktales, because he mostly met totally different actors, unlike those he worked with, and the team was not very friendly towards him either . Maybe they fixed him, but he still remained a minor character. If it's because of Disney's protective policy, they could, like in the OG Ducktales, put him back in the navy, or they could have put him somewhere else so that Donald appeared temporarily. I can understand that in the first season Donald didn't appear because he was fixing up his houseboat, but for the second season when he was shot on the moon and he was on a desert island for a year as well as for the third season, I just don't see why they had to do. Totally idiotic. Still, it's good that they fixed the relationship between Donald and Della at the end of the series, and somehow the interaction between Donald and Scrooge was good. It's a shame they didn't do more interactions between Donald and Scrooge, because I really think a conversation between David Tennant and Tony Anselmo would have worked well.
"On the subject of recasting, how come you don't bat an eye about Chris Diamantopalous replacing Bret Iwan for the Paul Rudish Mickey shorts? Like if you're gonna say Don Cheadle doing Donald's normal voice for only two episodes is disrespectful to Tony Anselmo, then surely it should be seen as disrespectful to Bret Iwan that he got replaced by a big name actor for the Rudish shorts." Wrong conclusion. I'm not as familiar with Brett Iwan's work as I am with Chris Diamantopalous's work, but I can say that both of them played Mickey Mouse well, though Chris Diamantopalous did better and really knows how to give the impression of the character. And your comparison is wrong. The voice of Mickey and the voice of Donald are totally different and cannot be compared. Mickey has a normal voice with a bit of a mouse-like squeal, while Donald has a normal duck voice. And no, what they did in Mickey Mouse Cartoons by Paul Rudish was very good and commendable and Diamantopalous knows how to play a character and bring it to life, while Don Cheadle didn't. It would be ok if they introduced Duck Avenger so it would make sense, but not like this. Leslie Denison when he replaced Nash and replaced Donald's voice with a normal one, he did it with charm and grace, like a gentleman, while Cheadle didn't feel that way, just a raw commonplace speech. And no, I've said it before, Cheadle is a good actor, but he's not for voicing Donald with a normal voice. By the way, Cheadle is not the only one besides Denison who gave a normal Donald voice. Rob Paulsen already did when he played Duck Avenger in Pk: Out of the Shadow and he really nailed the character. The point in acting is how to portray a character, not to destroy it. Giancarlo Esposito was really able to portray the Phantom Blot, but the problem is the characterization they collapsed on him and it's totally the opposite of the original version. Chris Diamantopalous played Drake Mallard well, but Drake's characterization was nothing like the original version of Darkwing Duck. Not to mention the boys' voices, which didn't sound like boys at all. Only Boyd gave the impression of a real boy, even though he was a robot. So, if they could give Donald a normal voice, then they should have just given him some charm so that he sounds divine and should not use a joke about his voice in serious moments because it collapses the story and the action itself. After all, I forgot to say this, we didn't even get a single quality episode related to the dynamic relationship between Donald and his nephews in Ducktales 2017.
Whether they respected the original or not, just look at how they changed the characters and you'll see what I'm talking about. Their goal was to get a Darkwing Duck reboot, Angones himself admitted that and the third season was an attempt at that, but they failed because Disney gave it to another man. I know there was a lot of hysteria about it. And in that last panel, Angones admitted that his favorite character (not sure if it was a joke or if he was serious) is Doofus Drake. And if you've read Angones' Tumblr replies before, you might have noticed that Angones changed the Burger Beagle to be thin, not fat, because he had a childhood ridicule complex. It's bad what they did to him, but that's no excuse to change the character to a totally different one, and still have the old name. I have a similar problem with Gyro's characterization, even though there are fans who love him as such. And Disney gave it to them, probably for the reason that Gravity Falls ended at that time and that they abruptly stopped showing Wonder Over Yander, so through Ducktales they wanted to use the opportunity to make their own version of Darkwing Duck and set up Disney Afternoon in their own way. How it went, read djnyr's earlier comments.
"And when did Angones ever block people who criticize him?" Well, there are quite a few of them that Angones blocked, including my friends from Tumblr and Twitter as well as I heard from 4chan that they were blocked when they gave even a well-intentioned criticism of him. A Russian artist got blocked when she complained why Scrooge didn't get the lead role, a friend of mine who likes Ducktales got blocked for no reason, a friend of mine from Mexico got blocked when she commented on why Angones tweeted about Gosalyn and why Donald got bad treatment, one she got for making bad comments about his version of Caballeros, etc. I got blocked because I said I didn't like his Quack Pack version which is the total opposite of the original version. So if we say something good, do we deserve to get blocked for no reason? Or just doesn't like different opinions? We live in a democracy, don't we? Can you justify that?
"Like what makes you think Matt Danner doesn't block people if they have criticism with Legend of the Three Caballeros either (I heard from a friend that Danner blocked them after they made a criticism about how Legend of the Three Caballeros handled Daisy)?" Do you have proof of that? One is telling, the other is reality. If they complained to Danner about Daisy, there was a lot of it, but Danner explained that he wanted to do more focus on Daisy where Daisy would realize how much of a jerk she was, but because they didn't have time, they didn't get to do it. But Danner admitted his mistake. In the end, Donald and Daisy were together again. Granted, they weren't just complaining about Daisy, there was a lot of complaining about why he used Xander and humans as deities, not considering that they were references to the original movies like Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros. You can only imagine how much time he spent explaining all that to them, because of course they didn't even watch the previous materials. I have complaints about Danner too, but I don't always complain and I know he did a great job. That's why I prefer The Legend of The Three Caballeros. If you don't like that series, feel free to say so, that's not a problem, I'll respect your opinion on that. Just sad how that series got pushed back against Ducktales. And no, I don't think The Legend of The Three Caballeros would have passed in popularity and been more popular than Ducktales, but if they had received even a fraction of the promotion money that Ducktales received, they would have been more watched, not than Ducktales for sure, but more the world knew about it.
Sorry, if I offended you in the previous post, it wasn't my intention, but it's just tiring to answer you every time. I admit there are things they did well with Ducktales and I admit I was wrong and you are right about some things. But you also have to admit your mistakes and that you can't always be right. And it's fine to defend a show you love, but I can't always agree with you nor are my impressions the same as yours. It's hard to give an objective conclusion, but realistically, even though there are things I liked about Ducktales and the characters portrayed there, I can't justify Angones after everything he's done and being some kind of deity because he's not. The only thing I'm thankful for is Ducktales for bringing back my nostalgia for reading comics, and for that I thank them. Sorry for the rude address.
