Ducktales 2017

[Scroogerello]

Jun 11, 2017 12:31:12 GMT drakeborough said:

.

Jun 11, 2017 11:21:32 GMT Scroogerello said:

He didn't create any of those characters, and it doesn't seem any storylines were directly taken from his stories at all (and if they were, that's perfectly legal, and wasn't Rosa aware of this when he worked under the Disney license?).

This seems needlessy harsh. Maybe you didn't want to imply that, but it almost seems you are saying that he deserved to be exploited because he was aware of the unfair Disney system and yet kept working in it for many years.

I didn't imply that, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion--I didn't say he "deserved" it--I was saying that when you are working on such popular material for Disney, it's an expectable possibility that they will use it in future productions. I was talking about the upcoming series, not Don Rosa's career as a comic book writer. How is the upcoming series "exploiting" Rosa exactly? Not a single episode has been released, and from the promotional material, there doesn't seem to be any storyline or character taken directly from Rosa's stories (perhaps a few themes were loosely based on Rosa's--would that be considered exploitation?).
But, anyway, that was the point I was trying to make; it may be best to just not use Rosa's stories as an influence at all, for both parties involved.

Anyway, I think the whole "Scrooge's age" thing would most easily be solved by just leaving it and not bringing too much attention to it. They did the same in the original DuckTales TV series, where Duckburg was clearly updated to the 1980s, and yet Goldie and Scrooge's Klondike past made various appearances in the show.

[Minotaur]

Jun 11, 2017 12:57:17 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 11, 2017 12:36:34 GMT Minotaur said:

Yeah, it does sound like Jano's comment is more or less close to Rosa's own opinion on this topic. I don't know. He didn't pop up and clarify his own opinion as he occasionally does. But maybe he just doesn't care. 

Listen to Rosa's comments in this video, at around the 4:30 mark; it's clear that he is very, very resistant to the idea of Disney doing any adaptation of his work.  He knows he can't stop them if they choose to do so, but won't help them in any way. He's bitter about the whole Disney system, and wants nothing to do with the company. I've often wondered why the writers of this new DuckTales series never tried to get Rosa involved; now I suspect that they probably did and were rebuffed.

No, Jano said no one has contacted Rosa for that reboot, and someone else in the comment section said that's because the director was afraid that Rosa would directly hung off the line...

[Minotaur]

Jun 11, 2017 14:36:12 GMT Scroogerello said:

I didn't imply that, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion--I didn't say he "deserved" it--I was saying that when you are working on such popular material for Disney, it's an expectable possibility that they will use it in future productions. I was talking about the upcoming series, not Don Rosa's career as a comic book writer. How is the upcoming series "exploiting" Rosa exactly? Not a single episode has been released, and from the promotional material, there doesn't seem to be any storyline or character taken directly from Rosa's stories (perhaps a few themes were loosely based on Rosa's--would that be considered exploitation?).

I understand you may not think so, but when the first teaser was released, A LOT of people were assuming if this show was going to loosely adapt Lo$. It's not surprising if some of them actually asked Jano for that possibility.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jun 11, 2017 16:07:40 GMT Minotaur said:

Jun 11, 2017 14:36:12 GMT Scroogerello said:

I didn't imply that, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion--I didn't say he "deserved" it--I was saying that when you are working on such popular material for Disney, it's an expectable possibility that they will use it in future productions. I was talking about the upcoming series, not Don Rosa's career as a comic book writer. How is the upcoming series "exploiting" Rosa exactly? Not a single episode has been released, and from the promotional material, there doesn't seem to be any storyline or character taken directly from Rosa's stories (perhaps a few themes were loosely based on Rosa's--would that be considered exploitation?).

I understand you may not think so, but when the first teaser was released, A LOT of people were assuming if this show was going to loosely adapt Lo$. It's not surprised if some of them actually asked Jano for that possiblity.

Yes, when the trailer first came out, and it showed scenes where HD&L were apparently meeting an old, crotchety, hermetic Scrooge for the first time, it certainly looked like a scene from Chapter XII of Life of Scrooge. Rosa is the only one who has ever written about Scrooge being estranged from his family until the events of "Christmas on Bear Mountain". Donald seemingly knowing him in the trailer, however, argued against it even then. And now, it's clear they're not following that timeline at all.  

Minotaur said:

No, Jano said no one has contacted Rosa for that reboot, and someone else in the comment section said that's because the director was afraid that Rosa would directly hung off the line...

He probably would have!

[drakeborough]

Jun 11, 2017 12:57:17 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

I've often wondered why the writers of this new DuckTales series never tried to get Rosa involved; now I suspect that they probably did and were rebuffed.

I don't have any element to confirm or deny this, though it's worth mentioning that for the original DuckTales Rosa was contacted by the production team, and he refused because he was busy doing duck comics. And while it would have been fun to see a DuckTales with Rosa's contribution, I think it was for the best that we got his comics (plus, hundreds of people work on a show, and he wouldn't have had the last word on creative choices).

Jun 11, 2017 13:38:00 GMT The KKM said:

I've a feeling there'll be time travel involved. Scrooge and Goldie probably hopped forwards in time somehow and that'll be part of the big mystery of the family, dunno.

Although there's a precedent in comics for an old Scrooge meeting a young Goldie through time travel, I don't think the producers will portray Goldie as being significatively younger than Scrooge. I think they will do like in the previous show and portray them as being about the same age and having a common past.

Jun 11, 2017 14:36:12 GMT Scroogerello said:

I didn't imply that, and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion--I didn't say he "deserved" it--I was saying that when you are working on such popular material for Disney, it's an expectable possibility that they will use it in future productions. I was talking about the upcoming series, not Don Rosa's career as a comic book writer. How is the upcoming series "exploiting" Rosa exactly? Not a single episode has been released, and from the promotional material, there doesn't seem to be any storyline or character taken directly from Rosa's stories (perhaps a few themes were loosely based on Rosa's--would that be considered exploitation?).

I knew you weren't implying that, it's just that the wording you used could have made it seem you were implying that. Also, I didn't understand you were talking about the series, so I figured you were talking about his comic book career.

Jun 11, 2017 14:36:12 GMT Scroogerello said:

Anyway, I think the whole "Scrooge's age" thing would most easily be solved by just leaving it and not bringing too much attention to it. They did the same in the original DuckTales TV series, where Duckburg was clearly updated to the 1980s, and yet Goldie and Scrooge's Klondike past made various appearances in the show.

Like I said, I also think they will do that, based on what they did in the previous series and what they still do in modern stories mentioning the Klondike. Not that I think this is the best idea (in fact, I think most characters work best if the show were set decades ago) but that would be an unrelated discussion.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jun 11, 2017 17:07:22 GMT drakeborough said:

Jun 11, 2017 13:38:00 GMT The KKM said:

I've a feeling there'll be time travel involved. Scrooge and Goldie probably hopped forwards in time somehow and that'll be part of the big mystery of the family, dunno.

Although there's a precedent in comics for an old Scrooge meeting a young Goldie through time travel, I don't think the producers will portray Goldie as being significatively younger than Scrooge. I think they will do like in the previous show and portray them as being about the same age and having a common past.

Agnones confirmed that Scrooge and Goldie will be the same age. When asked why Goldie looks young in the EW article, he stated, "all will be revealed". Despite this non-answer, I'm kind of worried that that is indeed "old" Goldie (they gave her the beginnings of undereye bags so you don't think she's too young), and we just have to "suspend our disbelief". 

He also provided a nonsensical response to a question about why Gladstone's eyes connect to his beak now (something about small eyes not being able to support cocky eyebrows), but that aspect's not too big a deal for me. 

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jun 11, 2017 14:13:47 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 11, 2017 13:38:00 GMT The KKM said:

I've a feeling there'll be time travel involved. Scrooge and Goldie probably hopped forwards in time somehow and that'll be part of the big mystery of the family, dunno. Or maybe instead some old spell that makes them age slower or something. Point being, I've a feeling that as part of the "sanitise Scrooge by replacing the greedyness with thirst for adventure" idea they've got going, the elements of mystery and adventure will get heightened importance (in a similar way to Gravity Falls), and questions we're used to just ignoring in the comics like these will get used as fodder for mysteries and further mystical events.

Ugh. I hope not. I know nothing about Gravity Falls, but the Ducks haven't ever been time travelers from the past or mystical beings not subject to the normal laws of biology or aging. If they go that route, this show will bear no resemblance whatsoever to the comics or even the original series.

I'm with you on the fact that the whole "remove the greediness" thing is stupid, but Barks did write a whole story with the purpose of explaining that Scrooge didn't age so that writers in future years wouldn't have to deal with his increasing senility, so there is some kind of precedent for Scrooge not being subject to the normal laws of aging, and I actually kinda like the idea. As long as they don't handle it stupidly. 

[drakeborough]

Jun 11, 2017 17:22:28 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 11, 2017 17:07:22 GMT drakeborough said:

Although there's a precedent in comics for an old Scrooge meeting a young Goldie through time travel, I don't think the producers will portray Goldie as being significatively younger than Scrooge. I think they will do like in the previous show and portray them as being about the same age and having a common past.

Agnones confirmed that Scrooge and Goldie will be the same age. When asked why Goldie looks young in the EW article, he stated, "all will be revealed". Despite this non-answer, I'm kind of worried that that is indeed "old" Goldie (they gave her the beginnings of undereye bags so you don't think she's too young), and we just have to "suspend our disbelief". 

Maybe the producers think it is a cool idea to have plenty of female characters with bright yellow hair regardless of age, just like Italian colorist have been doing for a while, like in the example below

After all, even in the old series you could tell apart young Goldie and old Goldie only by hair color and glasses. And for other characters the similarity between their younger selves and old selves is even more evident: compare "The Invader of Fort Duckburg", in which Scrooge comes to Duckburg, to "A Little Something Special" in which Scrooge celebrates his 50 years in Duckburg: he is virtually identical despite being half a century older.

That said, I don't like old characters having bright yellow hair and I hope she is indeed young Goldie rather than being old Goldie with some contrived explanation for her young appearance.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jun 11, 2017 18:08:49 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

I'm with you on the fact that the whole "remove the greediness" thing is stupid, but Barks did write a whole story with the purpose of explaining that Scrooge didn't age so that writers in future years wouldn't have to deal with his increasing senility, so there is some kind of precedent for Scrooge not being subject to the normal laws of aging, and I actually kinda like the idea. As long as they don't handle it stupidly. 

Didn't we have a discussion on this topic on another thread? I thought we did, but searching the forum was unhelpful. Maybe it was on the DCF.

Anyway, this is one thing I have to disagree with Barks on. He often said things in interviews and private conversations that made no sense in the context of the Duck universe he essentially created himself, such as Donald being a teenager, or Glomgold having always been evil, etc., and in general tended to pay scant attention to continuity or consistency in his stories, or appeared to have little knowledge of it (often to the consternation of the interviewers!). This may be another example of that. What happens exactly in "Go Slowly, Sands of Time?" Is it explicitly stated in that story that Scrooge achieves immortality or stops aging? If I recall correctly, I believe this idea that "events in the story were a way for him to give future authors a way to ground stories in the present day" was something he came up with post-hoc years later, perhaps as an afterthought. What was the context in which he made those comments? Was it an idea that a fan or the interviewer came up with, with which he simply expressed agreement? Considering that Barks tended not to connect his stories together or intentionally date them in any way, the idea that Scrooge continuing to age and get senile would be problematic for future generations isn't something that I would think he would ever really consider an issue requiring a workaround.  

[Matilda]

Jun 11, 2017 7:05:39 GMT Monkey_Feyerabend said:

Jun 8, 2017 23:33:24 GMT Matilda said:

 I do have an observation on birth order in twins: in Italy, I was told in the 1970's by an Italian physician who is an identical twin, the assumed relative age of twins is the opposite of what we assume. We say the one born first is older, whereas in Italy, he told me, the second born is legally considered the elder, on the pre-scientific "first in, last out" principle! As if that fertilized egg had been shoved to the far end of the womb by the second one. Can any of you folks verify this? Googling is no help on this vital issue of cross-cultural understanding.

That pre-scientific idea is fairly widespread among common people, but it does not have a legal value I think. Anyhow, believe it or not, I cannot find a definitive answer to your question even googling in Italian! 

The most serious reference I can find is this FAQ in the website of an important governative Health Institution:

www.iss.it/gemelli/index.php?lang=1&id=1329&tipo=61

I translate for you the first paragraph:

There is no "bigger" or "older" in a twin pair. From the point of view of birth-registration, in Italy, in the Certificates of Attendance at birth (CedAP) in case of a twin childbirth the order of birth counts. So there is a first-born, a second-born, etc... 

(In the other paragraphs of the text it is explained that scientifically one cannot say who was conceived first.)

So no, the second-born is not considered (legally) the elder in Italy. But I am not even sure that the converse is true. Because I think that this CedAP (a certificate where various information concerning the birth are noted, like malformations and stuff) must be kind of a new thing, and I am not sure about how much of a legal validity it has. At this point I suspect that it is up to the parents to choose the legal order when they go to the city hall to declare the newborns.   
 

Thanks for your research and for that informative response! Naturally the legal situation might have changed since the 1970's. On the other hand, what the physician told us might have been true in practice but never codified in law. Maybe parents have always been allowed to make that call. And if parents generally adhered to the pre-scientific theory, then it would have been true that that theory was backed up legally. I would think in cases of primogeniture the law would have had to define which twin is older, but maybe primogeniture wasn't as common in Italy back in the day as it was in, say, England.

As for the question of who was conceived first...of course, in the case of identical multiples, there was only one conception so it's a non-issue.

OK, we will now return to our regularly scheduled discussion of DuckTales, apologies for the detour!

[Matilda]

Jun 11, 2017 19:11:03 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

Jun 11, 2017 18:08:49 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

What happens exactly in "Go Slowly, Sands of Time?" Is it explicitly stated in that story that Scrooge achieves immortality or stops aging? If I recall correctly, I believe this idea that "events in the story were a way for him to give future authors a way to ground stories in the present day" was something he came up with post-hoc years later, perhaps as an afterthought. What was the context in which he made those comments? Was it an idea that a fan or the interviewer came up with, with which he simply expressed agreement? Considering that Barks tended not to connect his stories together or intentionally date them in any way, the idea that Scrooge continuing to age and get senile would be problematic for future generations isn't something that I would think he would ever really consider an issue requiring a workaround.  

First, let me contextualize this comment by saying that (as you may know) Barks did not develop "Go Slowly" as a comic book story. This is from the intro by Geoffrey Blum and Thomas Andrae in U$ 216. They say at the request of Gutenberghus, he wrote a plot outline in the late 1960's "but the Danish adaptation printed in the this issue was not completed until 1983....Barks returned to the story in 1975 and worked it up as a prose fable for the anthology Uncle Scrooge McDuck: His Life and Times; this is in many ways the authoritative version....The new comic book script by Geoffrey Blum draws on this text...." I take it from this that we have two scripts for this comic book story, the original script by Tom Anderson (based on Barks' plot outline), and the script written by Blum, which took Barks' "prose fable" from 1975 as a guide. So, someone who has (1) the Gutenberghus original comic book story or (2) the USMcD: HL&T book could provide more data.

OK, context established, here's what the Blum script says. Scrooge is looking for a "rejuvenator...some age-reversing formula to keep my battery charged and my juices flowing." At other times, the goal is described simply as "the key to long life" or "the secret of elastic life." When the boys find out that all the Hunza people do nothing outside their work, they theorize that Scrooge already has the secret. They ask him how old he is, and ask, "Didn't you make your fortune way back in 1902, selling surplus cannons from the Boer War?" He says he "was rich long before that" and founded his fortune in '98 "on the Comstock lode".  HDL say "By our reckoning, you're every bit as old as these walking fossils in Hunza." Scrooge ignores this: "It isn't how old I am that matters. It's how old I have to be! Stop chattering and help me into the palace!" Then on the last page the Hunza treasurer says that, while "anyone in the valley will tell you that the secret of long life is to enjoy your work," that's "all wind up the chimney" and the real secret is to play in money. Scrooge gets mad because he came all this way for nothing, could have stayed in his own back yard. Last panel, back in the bin. Dewey wonders if the therapy will work for us, Huey: "Fat chance! You want to live forever, Louie?" Louie: "Doing what Unca Scrooge is doing? No, thanks!!"

So, in this story it is stated by HDL that Scrooge has already found a way to extend his life (a sole focus on one's work), in a conversation that directly cites the dates we've heard about Scrooge's backstory. The ending gives an alternative "explanation" that the rejuvenation magic comes from swimming in money. (Not clear how seriously we're meant to take that, though, since it seems unlikely that everyone in Hunza regularly plays in coins.) HDL's words do make it seem as if the point of the story is to deal with the question of Scrooge's apparent age, given his backstory.

Questions for the forum: Is the original script by Tom Anderson different in significant ways on this central question? And do we know what the Gutenberghus folks actually requested from Barks in the 1960's and why? Did they want a story to explain Scrooge's longevity so that they could keep his gold rush backstory? And what does Barks say in the prose piece in USMcD: HL&T?

In truth, of course, it doesn't really work to explain Scrooge's longevity without also dealing with the rest of the family. Perhaps people figure you could always backdate Donald & HDL's entrance into Scrooge's life several years back from the present day. But that still wouldn't explain how Donald could be Scrooge's nephew. As Baar Baar Jinx points out, you'd have to make Donald Scrooge's great-nephew, and then later his great-great-nephew, as time went on.

[Matilda]

Jun 11, 2017 9:29:28 GMT drakeborough said:

Jun 10, 2017 22:04:01 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

He also acknowledges that Scrooge meeting Goldie during the Dawson Gold Rush makes them both impossibly old in any present-day story, but says they "have plans" to explain that.

I think they will do like in most modern duck comics (and in the original DuckTales) and use a pseudo-"floating timeline" in which only the present floates, while the Klondike Gold Rush doesn't floate and remains in the late 1890's where it should be. This has the unfortunate implication of making Scrooge seem as if he were actually 150 years old, and that's one of the reasons I dislike this pseudo-"floating timeline" and prefer the present to be the 1950's. That said, I think that if we can't have the 1950's then the pseudo-"floating timeline" is the lesser of evils, giving that the alternatives are either removing Scrooge's Klondike background or postponing the date of an historical event by several decades.

Jun 10, 2017 22:04:01 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

While I agree entirely with you, Drakeborough, that the "floating timeline" solution is preferable to either dropping the Klondike backstory or messing with the timing of the Gold Rush, my guess is that he wouldn't say "we have plans for that" if they were going to go with the "floating timeline" solution. Since the "floating timeline" is mostly a matter of *not* talking about the issue, and *not* having any plan for solving the problem. I tend to think they probably have some other solution in mind, time-jumping or life-extending or whatnot. But we shall see!

Like you, I am in Rosa's court on this matter, and keep the setting in the 1950's in my headcanon. When a story attains "real" status in my headcanon and includes post-1960ish tech, I mentally edit it out. If the post-1960s tech is crucial to the story, the story does not attain "reality" for me. Which doesn't mean I can't appreciate and enjoy it! Same goes for DuckTales.

[drakeborough]

Jun 11, 2017 23:01:02 GMT Matilda said:

First, let me contextualize this comment by saying that (as you may know) Barks did not develop "Go Slowly" as a comic book story. This is from the intro by Geoffrey Blum and Thomas Andrae in U$ 216. They say at the request of Gutenberghus, he wrote a plot outline in the late 1960's "but the Danish adaptation printed in the this issue was not completed until 1983....Barks returned to the story in 1975 and worked it up as a prose fable for the anthology Uncle Scrooge McDuck: His Life and Times; this is in many ways the authoritative version....The new comic book script by Geoffrey Blum draws on this text...." I take it from this that we have two scripts for this comic book story, the original script by Tom Anderson (based on Barks' plot outline), and the script written by Blum, which took Barks' "prose fable" from 1975 as a guide. So, someone who has (1) the Gutenberghus original comic book story or (2) the USMcD: HL&T book could provide more data.

OK, context established, here's what the Blum script says. Scrooge is looking for a "rejuvenator...some age-reversing formula to keep my battery charged and my juices flowing." At other times, the goal is described simply as "the key to long life" or "the secret of elastic life." When the boys find out that all the Hunza people do nothing outside their work, they theorize that Scrooge already has the secret. They ask him how old he is, and ask, "Didn't you make your fortune way back in 1902, selling surplus cannons from the Boer War?" He says he "was rich long before that" and founded his fortune in '98 "on the Comstock lode".  HDL say "By our reckoning, you're every bit as old as these walking fossils in Hunza." Scrooge ignores this: "It isn't how old I am that matters. It's how old I have to be! Stop chattering and help me into the palace!" Then on the last page the Hunza treasurer says that, while "anyone in the valley will tell you that the secret of long life is to enjoy your work," that's "all wind up the chimney" and the real secret is to play in money. Scrooge gets mad because he came all this way for nothing, could have stayed in his own back yard. Last panel, back in the bin. Dewey wonders if the therapy will work for us, Huey: "Fat chance! You want to live forever, Louie?" Louie: "Doing what Unca Scrooge is doing? No, thanks!!"

So, in this story it is stated by HDL that Scrooge has already found a way to extend his life (a sole focus on one's work), in a conversation that directly cites the dates we've heard about Scrooge's backstory. The ending gives an alternative "explanation" that the rejuvenation magic comes from swimming in money. (Not clear how seriously we're meant to take that, though, since it seems unlikely that everyone in Hunza regularly plays in coins.) HDL's words do make it seem as if the point of the story is to deal with the question of Scrooge's apparent age, given his backstory.

Questions for the forum: Is the original script by Tom Anderson different in significant ways on this central question? And do we know what the Gutenberghus folks actually requested from Barks in the 1960's and why? Did they want a story to explain Scrooge's longevity so that they could keep his gold rush backstory? And what does Barks say in the prose piece in USMcD: HL&T?

In truth, of course, it doesn't really work to explain Scrooge's longevity without also dealing with the rest of the family. Perhaps people figure you could always backdate Donald & HDL's entrance into Scrooge's life several years back from the present day. But that still wouldn't explain how Donald could be Scrooge's nephew. As Baar Baar Jinx points out, you'd have to make Donald Scrooge's great-nephew, and then later his great-great-nephew, as time went on.

According to this article, Barks was contacted in 1968 by Carsten Jacobsen for Gutenberghus (now Egmont), and Jacobsen asked Barks if he could create a story for them. Barks declined, so Jacobsen asked if he could send story ideas for their writers. Barks then worked on the idea of "Go Slowly, Sands of Time" and sent it to the Disney Studios in Burbank so that they would send it to Jacobsen, but as the months passed it seemed the story idea was forgotten. In 1975, Barks was interviewed for a film about comic book authors, and he mentioned it: the director then contacted the right people and Barks could finally drew "Go Slowly" as an illustrated story for the 1981 book "Uncle Scrooge McDuck: His Life and Times".

And according to this article, the story was finally published in April 1984 by Gutenberghus, in a comic book version (10 pages) written by Tom Anderson and drawn by Vicar. It later appeared in the USA in Uncle Scrooge #216 (April 1987), with dialogues completely rewritten by Geoffrey Blum. The article doesn't mention which kind of changes Blum made, except for the fact that he made the setting more realistic by turning the parody name Khunza into the actual Hunza: Barks had been inspired by a National Geographic article mentioning Hunza people (known as Burusho people) regularly living over 100 because of the water they drink, full of particular minerals coming from glaciers (I never read that National Geographic article, but if I google Hunza I see that many titles are about debunking the longevity of his inhabitants as an urban legend). The Wikipedia article I just linked says "The October 1953 issue of National Geographic had an article on the Hunza River Valley that inspired Carl Barks' story Tralla La.[28]", and note 28 is "The Carl Barks Library Volume 12, page 229". So, the same NG article that inspired "Tralla La" also inspired "Go Slowly".

I have only read "Go Slowly" in its 2008 Italian translation, included in the complete Barks collection: it isn't said if it's a version translated from the Anderson text or from the Blum text, but it seems that it's a new translation since it has a different title compared to the two earlier Italian translations from 1986 and 1998. Anyway, the lack of a caption box on page 1 makes me think this translation is based on the Anderson version, an idea reinforced by the fact that the valley is called Khunza rather than Hunza. In this version, there is no mention of 1902, cannons, the Boer War, 1898, or the Comstock lode: HDL ask Scrooge if he started his fortune by selling used cars at the start of the last century (I guess the "start" is a mistake in the translation, maybe it was meant to be "at the end of the last century"), to which Scrooge say he was already rich before that, since he had found diamonds in Australia, and before that he was the Copper King of Montana; he then adds that he earned his first million by finding gold in the Klondike.

The 2008 complete Barks collection also includes the illustrated version of "Go Slowly". I am not sure how much the translation is accurate, but the plot is basically the same. The valley is called Khunza, though there's no mention of young Scrooge's exploits, or the annoying "By our reckoning, you're every bit as old as these walking fossils".

[Matilda]

Jun 12, 2017 9:34:13 GMT drakeborough said:

Jun 11, 2017 23:01:02 GMT Matilda said:

First, let me contextualize this comment by saying that (as you may know) Barks did not develop "Go Slowly" as a comic book story. This is from the intro by Geoffrey Blum and Thomas Andrae in U$ 216. They say at the request of Gutenberghus, he wrote a plot outline in the late 1960's "but the Danish adaptation printed in the this issue was not completed until 1983....Barks returned to the story in 1975 and worked it up as a prose fable for the anthology Uncle Scrooge McDuck: His Life and Times; this is in many ways the authoritative version....The new comic book script by Geoffrey Blum draws on this text...." I take it from this that we have two scripts for this comic book story, the original script by Tom Anderson (based on Barks' plot outline), and the script written by Blum, which took Barks' "prose fable" from 1975 as a guide. So, someone who has (1) the Gutenberghus original comic book story or (2) the USMcD: HL&T book could provide more data.

OK, context established, here's what the Blum script says. Scrooge is looking for a "rejuvenator...some age-reversing formula to keep my battery charged and my juices flowing." At other times, the goal is described simply as "the key to long life" or "the secret of elastic life." When the boys find out that all the Hunza people do nothing outside their work, they theorize that Scrooge already has the secret. They ask him how old he is, and ask, "Didn't you make your fortune way back in 1902, selling surplus cannons from the Boer War?" He says he "was rich long before that" and founded his fortune in '98 "on the Comstock lode".  HDL say "By our reckoning, you're every bit as old as these walking fossils in Hunza." Scrooge ignores this: "It isn't how old I am that matters. It's how old I have to be! Stop chattering and help me into the palace!" Then on the last page the Hunza treasurer says that, while "anyone in the valley will tell you that the secret of long life is to enjoy your work," that's "all wind up the chimney" and the real secret is to play in money. Scrooge gets mad because he came all this way for nothing, could have stayed in his own back yard. Last panel, back in the bin. Dewey wonders if the therapy will work for us, Huey: "Fat chance! You want to live forever, Louie?" Louie: "Doing what Unca Scrooge is doing? No, thanks!!"

So, in this story it is stated by HDL that Scrooge has already found a way to extend his life (a sole focus on one's work), in a conversation that directly cites the dates we've heard about Scrooge's backstory. The ending gives an alternative "explanation" that the rejuvenation magic comes from swimming in money. (Not clear how seriously we're meant to take that, though, since it seems unlikely that everyone in Hunza regularly plays in coins.) HDL's words do make it seem as if the point of the story is to deal with the question of Scrooge's apparent age, given his backstory.

Questions for the forum: Is the original script by Tom Anderson different in significant ways on this central question? And do we know what the Gutenberghus folks actually requested from Barks in the 1960's and why? Did they want a story to explain Scrooge's longevity so that they could keep his gold rush backstory? And what does Barks say in the prose piece in USMcD: HL&T?

In truth, of course, it doesn't really work to explain Scrooge's longevity without also dealing with the rest of the family. Perhaps people figure you could always backdate Donald & HDL's entrance into Scrooge's life several years back from the present day. But that still wouldn't explain how Donald could be Scrooge's nephew. As Baar Baar Jinx points out, you'd have to make Donald Scrooge's great-nephew, and then later his great-great-nephew, as time went on.

According to this article, Barks was contacted in 1968 by Carsten Jacobsen for Gutenberghus (now Egmont), and Jacobsen asked Barks if he could create a story for them. Barks declined, so Jacobsen asked if he could send story ideas for their writers. Barks then worked on the idea of "Go Slowly, Sands of Time" and sent it to the Disney Studios in Burbank so that they would send it to Jacobsen, but as the months passed it seemed the story idea was forgotten. In 1975, Barks was interviewed for a film about comic book authors, and he mentioned it: the director then contacted the right people and Barks could finally drew "Go Slowly" as an illustrated story for the 1981 book "Uncle Scrooge McDuck: His Life and Times".

And according to this article, the story was finally published in April 1984 by Gutenberghus, in a comic book version (10 pages) written by Tom Anderson and drawn by Vicar. It later appeared in the USA in Uncle Scrooge #216 (April 1987), with dialogues completely rewritten by Geoffrey Blum. The article doesn't mention which kind of changes Blum made, except for the fact that he made the setting more realistic by turning the parody name Khunza into the actual Hunza: Barks had been inspired by a National Geographic article mentioning Hunza people (known as Burusho people) regularly living over 100 because of the water they drink, full of particular minerals coming from glaciers (I never read that National Geographic article, but if I google Hunza I see that many titles are about debunking the longevity of his inhabitants as an urban legend). The Wikipedia article I just linked says "The October 1953 issue of National Geographic had an article on the Hunza River Valley that inspired Carl Barks' story Tralla La.[28]", and note 28 is "The Carl Barks Library Volume 12, page 229". So, the same NG article that inspired "Tralla La" also inspired "Go Slowly".

I have only read "Go Slowly" in its 2008 Italian translation, included in the complete Barks collection: it isn't said if it's a version translated from the Anderson text or from the Blum text, but it seems that it's a new translation since it has a different title compared to the two earlier Italian translations from 1986 and 1998. Anyway, the lack of a caption box on page 1 makes me think this translation is based on the Anderson version, an idea reinforced by the fact that the valley is called Khunza rather than Hunza. In this version, there is no mention of 1902, cannons, the Boer War, 1898, or the Comstock lode: HDL ask Scrooge if he started his fortune by selling used cars at the start of the last century (I guess the "start" is a mistake in the translation, maybe it was meant to be "at the end of the last century"), to which Scrooge say he was already rich before that, since he had found diamonds in Australia, and before that he was the Copper King of Montana; he then adds that he earned his first million by finding gold in the Klondike.

The 2008 complete Barks collection also includes the illustrated version of "Go Slowly". I am not sure how much the translation is accurate, but the plot is basically the same. The valley is called Khunza, though there's no mention of young Scrooge's exploits, or the annoying "By our reckoning, you're every bit as old as these walking fossils".

Thanks for the details, Drakeborough. Yes, the article I cited in U$ 216 actually talks mostly about Hunza, Tralla La and the Nat'l Geographic article. So, from what you say, my reading is as follows: the Gutenberghus people did not ask Barks specifically for a story to explain Scrooge's longevity (the better to preserve his Klondike backstory). Barks' plot outline for them probably did not include  dates or details from Scrooge's backstory, since his prose piece for USMcD: HL&T did not. But Anderson's script for the comic book story did, and so did Blum's, with Blum apparently changing most of those details. Barks may have meant the story to give an explanation of Scrooge's longevity in order to make sense of decades of new stories extending into the future. But the concern with explicit continuity involving historical dates was probably not part of his story outline.

[Scrooge MacDuck]

Jun 12, 2017 13:50:19 GMT Matilda said:

That was also my understanding.