Ducktales 2017

[RobbK1]

Jul 31, 2017 15:05:04 GMT The KKM said:

Should be pointed out Scrooge is being voiced by an actual Scot, while Glomgold isn't as far as I recall. Surely this is a case where people are so used to the exaggerated fake Scot accents foreign actors put up that the accent of an actual Scot then sounds wrong and too subtle?

I disagree strongly that the exaggerated fake Scots accents foreign actors put up can make it that the accent of an actual Scot then sounds wrong and too subtle to many people.  And, I don't think that would apply in this case, even if that were true, given that the actor who played Glomgold's part actually spoke with a beautiful heavy Scots Brogue, enunciating the words perfectly, so that there was no sound that would provide a clue that he might not be a Scots native speaker. 

I do, however feel that he employed an incorrect word choice, given that the correct idiomatic phrase in ALL of the different English dialects (other than perhaps various dialects of Pigeon English) is: "put one over on me".  

So, I would have phrased his line, thusly: "You can't put one over on me!"     

In Highland Scots, "Y’aaa cann’naa get wunnn over awwn ME, MaacDuuukk!" should have been: "Y’aaa cann’naa pooooot wunnn over awwn ME, MaacDuuukk!"


So, I have no truck with the current voice actor for Glomgold (IF they want him to have only a Scots accent).  And I certainly don't think he has such an accent to mimic Scrooge.  But, despite thinking that Glomgold had a Scots origin, I think he should have an Afrikaans accent to his English, with, perhaps, a light touch of Scots Brogue, underlying it.

[drakeborough]

Jul 31, 2017 15:02:18 GMT RobbK1 said:

Scrooge is his arch-enemy.  No way would he mimic his speech as his own normal way of speaking.  That would be far, far, far beyond a neurotic reaction.  It would be a one-of- a kind reaction, studied by a few specialists in abnormal psychology.

Why are so many later creators CHANGING aspects of Barks' characters from how Barks envisioned them?  Why can't we have Glomgold be from South Africa, as Barks intended?  Either he should speak with an Afrikaans accent in English, or he should speak with one of the British South African accents (such as that of The Greater Capetown Area.

So far, I agree with your message.

Jul 31, 2017 15:02:18 GMT RobbK1 said:

Personally, I'd have liked Scrooge to have that heavy Scots Brogue, mixed with Donald's raspy Duck sound.  I'd have liked Glomgold to speak like a duck, using a mixed heavy Afrikaans accent in English (mixed at times, with Afrikaans words and idiomatic phrases), underlain with a slight Scots Brogue, retained from having spoken with his parents and grandparents during his youth.  

Here I disagree: I think giving duck voices to characters originating in comics (like Scrooge and Glomgold) would be a very bad choice. If it were for me, I would even give Donald a normal voice.

Also, I think Scrooge should only have a slight Scottish accent, since he left Scotland at a young age (13, if we use Rosa's timeline).

[flintheartglomgold]

Jul 31, 2017 14:01:25 GMT Scrooge MacDuck said:

Jul 31, 2017 11:33:31 GMT RobbK1 said:

Thanks.  I've finally heard it now.  Y’aaa cann’naa get wunnn over awwn ME, MaacDuuukk! It’s a verrrry heavy and authentic Scots Brogue, (that I’d actually like Scrooge to use).

But, unfortunately, Glomgold’s speech has not even the faintest hint of an underlying Afrikaans accent. Which leads the viewer to believe that he was raised in The Highlands of Scotland, rather than having been raised among The Boers, on The Veld, within The Union of South Africa, or ’Et Oranje-Vrystaat (The Orange free State).

Actually, I think it's an accent he puts on willingly. Remember this updated Glomgold's bio? The idea is that, while not Scottish at all, he's always trying to rip off Scrooge's success, and thought since part of Scrooge was Scottish as part of his image, he should appear "even more" Scottish, hence the kilt and hat. The accent probably completes the picture. (All this being said, remember The Glomgold Heritage retconned Flinthear's Scottish origins into his Rosa-style South African backstory.)

According to many articles I have read, in the DuckTales re make, Glomgold is actually South African, but like you said, he pretends to be Scottish due to having rivalry with Scrooge. 

His accent clearly sounds very different from McDuck's in the video. It sounds fake IMO, whilst Scrooge's sounds like a normal Scotsman. 

I might be wrong considering actually Spanish is my mother tongue, but I learned English at a young age as I went to private school since kindergarten, and I lived for a considerable amount of time in an English-speaking country. 

[flintheartglomgold]

Jul 31, 2017 15:02:18 GMT RobbK1 said:

Jul 31, 2017 14:42:01 GMT Minotaur said:

It is getting weird. Why on earth would a person want to imitate his archenemy? It sounds more like Glomgold admires him rather than despises him.

Yes. I agree.  Scrooge is his arch-enemy.  No way would he mimic his speech as his own normal way of speaking.  That would be far, far, far beyond a neurotic reaction.  It would be a one-of- a kind reaction, studied by a few specialists in abnormal psychology.

Why are so many later creators CHANGING aspects of Barks' characters from how Barks envisioned them?  Why can't we have Glomgold be from South Africa, as Barks intended?  Either he should speak with an Afrikaans accent in English, or he should speak with one of the British South African accents (such as that of The Greater Capetown Area.  It's not all that difficult for the average native English speaker to understand, being about half way between a mild Australian accent, and a very light posh accent from southern England (say from Essex or thereabouts).  Most Americans, Canadians, Englanders, Scots, Irish, Aussies, and Kiwis could understand it, and also all the Europeans who speak English as a second or third language could understand it as well.  It would certainly be more understandable than that heavy Scots Brogue that they've arbitrarily given him.

Personally, I'd have liked Scrooge to have that heavy Scots Brogue, mixed with Donald's raspy Duck sound.  I'd have liked Glomgold to speak like a duck, using a mixed heavy Afrikaans accent in English (mixed at times, with Afrikaans words and idiomatic phrases), underlain with a slight Scots Brogue, retained from having spoken with his parents and grandparents during his youth. 

But, then, I'm a perfectionist.    

 

I would have to disagree. Most Americans I know have a hard time understanding the Afrikaans accent in English. I have met both Americans and Afrikaners, which includes two ex girlfriends of mine who are Afrikaners, and they do have a very unique accent. 

As a Spanish native speaker, I did had a hard time at first understanding the Afrikaans accent in English, though eventually I can understand it, and I can speak some basic Afrikaans phrases. The Afrikaners I know they did not had a hard time understanding my Spanish accent, though they said they find it beautiful for some reason. 

[RobbK1]

Jul 31, 2017 19:08:52 GMT flintheartglomgold said:

Jul 31, 2017 15:02:18 GMT RobbK1 said:

Yes. I agree.  Scrooge is his arch-enemy.  No way would he mimic his speech as his own normal way of speaking.  That would be far, far, far beyond a neurotic reaction.  It would be a one-of- a kind reaction, studied by a few specialists in abnormal psychology.

Why are so many later creators CHANGING aspects of Barks' characters from how Barks envisioned them?  Why can't we have Glomgold be from South Africa, as Barks intended?  Either he should speak with an Afrikaans accent in English, or he should speak with one of the British South African accents (such as that of The Greater Capetown Area.  It's not all that difficult for the average native English speaker to understand, being about half way between a mild Australian accent, and a very light posh accent from southern England (say from Essex or thereabouts).  Most Americans, Canadians, Englanders, Scots, Irish, Aussies, and Kiwis could understand it, and also all the Europeans who speak English as a second or third language could understand it as well.  It would certainly be more understandable than that heavy Scots Brogue that they've arbitrarily given him.

Personally, I'd have liked Scrooge to have that heavy Scots Brogue, mixed with Donald's raspy Duck sound.  I'd have liked Glomgold to speak like a duck, using a mixed heavy Afrikaans accent in English (mixed at times, with Afrikaans words and idiomatic phrases), underlain with a slight Scots Brogue, retained from having spoken with his parents and grandparents during his youth. 

But, then, I'm a perfectionist.    

 

I would have to disagree. Most Americans I know have a hard time understanding the Afrikaans accent in English. I have met both Americans and Afrikaners, which includes two ex girlfriends of mine who are Afrikaners, and they do have a very unique accent. 

As a Spanish native speaker, I did had a hard time at first understanding the Afrikaans accent in English, though eventually I can understand it, and I can speak some basic Afrikaans phrases. The Afrikaners I know they did not had a hard time understanding my Spanish accent, though they said they find it beautiful for some reason. 

I can understand that.  Spanish (and all the Latin-based languages have a very pleasant rhythm and cadence.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

Jul 31, 2017 18:23:40 GMT drakeborough said:

Here I disagree: I think giving duck voices to characters originating in comics (like Scrooge and Glomgold) would be a very bad choice. If it were for me, I would even give Donald a normal voice.

Also, I think Scrooge should only have a slight Scottish accent, since he left Scotland at a young age (13, if we use Rosa's timeline).

I agree that the quacky voice should be limited to Donald (and even in his case, only for historic reasons). I thought it was interesting that Donald was as loquacious in IDW's first DuckTales issue (#0) as he is in the traditional comics ... I can't imagine Donald saying as much in the cartoon it's based on. The dichotomy between Cartoon-Donald and Comics-Donald continues with DuckTales '17!

I've probably said this before but it bears repeating ... if Hortense and/or Matilda appear in "present day" stories on this show, they should both have fairly pronounced Scottish accents ... unlike Scrooge, whose watered-down brogue is understandable, the McDuck sisters were well into adulthood when they emigrated to the US (by Rosa's timeline). I notice that in Life of Scrooge, Rosa had them lose their accents (at least phonetically) after they moved across the pond. Matilda didn't regain hers even after returning to Scotland in "Letter from Home". 

[RobbK1]

I find it VERY, VERY hard to believe that someone as young as only 13 could go away from his parents and travel from one continent to another during the very dangerous times of the mid 19th century. That's even too young for really tough boys from much tougher environments than Scrooge had (e.g. places with such violence that children were murdered and killed daily). Anyone that young and physically weak as 13 year old boys are compared to men, wouldn't have had a chance, ESPECIALLY given that he didn't know anyone with whom he could travel, who could protect him. That's why I would guess that the youngest anyone could have been to even attempt that would be age 16. And, I bet that many 16 year olds would have failed in such an adventure. Let's say he was 16 when he left. He'd have been past the age when speech habits are generally frozen. He'd have had a HEAVY Scots Brogue, unless he would put in a LOT of time and hard work to get rid of his accent. But, Scrooge WOULDN'T have thought it worth the time to do that, as America in the mid 1800s, was a polyglot of people from enumerable cultures and languages. So, he would NOT have thought it necessary to his making his fortune for him to rid himself of his Scots accent.

At what ages did Rosa have Hortense and Matilda coming to USA? If they came after age 14 or so, it would have been very difficult for them to get rid of their accents. It would have worn down a bit after 30-40-or 50 years in their new country, but most people that arrive in the new country after age 18 or so, don't lose MOST of their accents no matter HOW MANY years they are there (unless they are actors, or their career depends upon them losing it). I had lots of family members come to Canada from Europe at ages from 17 to 23 and most of them NEVER lost the bulk of their accent, despite staying the next 50 to 70 years in Canada and/or USA. Their accents wore down a slight bit after several decades. But not enough to matter much. And furthermore, when they returned to the old country for short visits, after a few hours talking with locals, they sounded like they had never left. Sure, - when people have been away from their old culture for a long time, and been speaking only a foreign language for many years, people from their former first language will hear a slight accent or affectation, and kid them about it. But it that slight accent would be imperceptible to a foreigner from the new country. I would guess that Matilda and Hortense would be back in Scotland speaking the way they were as children after 6 months, had they emigrated after age 14 or 15. If they were 11 or 12 when leaving, it would take a little longer. But, I doubt that they would have any trace of American accent in their Scots speech, after a year or so back.

[Baar Baar Jinx]

According to Rosa, Matilda was 31 and Hortense was 26 when they moved with Scrooge to the USA. So you're right, neither should have lost their Scottish accents at all. Even leaving Scotland at age 13, Scrooge should have sounded pretty Scottish, so Alan Young's portrayal was right on the money. I never really thought about it before, but wouldn't it have been unusual at the turn of the last century for two women to remain unmarried at the ages that Hortense and Matilda were when they emigrated? One would have expected them both to have found husbands in Scotland. 

[RobbK1]

Aug 2, 2017 18:29:13 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

According to Rosa, Matilda was 31 and Hortense was 26 when they moved with Scrooge to the USA. So you're right, neither should have lost their Scottish accents at all. Even leaving Scotland at age 13, Scrooge should have sounded pretty Scottish, so Alan Young's portrayal was right on the money. I never really thought about it before, but wouldn't it have been unusual at the turn of the last century for two women to remain unmarried at the ages that Hortense and Matilda were when they emigrated? One would have expected them both to have found husbands in Scotland. 

Yes, but maybe those nasty Whiskervilles, who hated The McDucks so much as to have a feud with them, spread the word that while both McDuck women were teens, that they were both "ruined" for marriage (if you know what I mean), so The McDuck line would dry up, and their ancient enemies would disappear after the two girls' generation. 

My own father's European parents had their marriage arranged when my grandfather was 16 and my grandmother was 13.  So, YES, I find it strange that even ONE of The McDuck girls would remain unmarried till 26, let alone BOTH till one was 31! 

[iggy]

my grandpa left home when he was 14, such things were normal back then and people were way tougher and less sensitive so I see no problem with 13 year old scrooge leaving home

[Minotaur]

Aug 2, 2017 18:29:13 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

According to Rosa, Matilda was 31 and Hortense was 26 when they moved with Scrooge to the USA. So you're right, neither should have lost their Scottish accents at all. Even leaving Scotland at age 13, Scrooge should have sounded pretty Scottish, so Alan Young's portrayal was right on the money.

I really don't think so. I moved to Australia when I was 19, now when I talked with people they don't even suspect I'm a foreigner here, until I mentioned it. My mother tongue is not even remotely related with English! I know many people who speak fluent English without a trace of their first language, they came from Russia, Italy, Greece and other parts of the world. Of course you have examples like my lab head who came to Australia years ago but still has his British accent, not very strong though. But changing one's accent is definitely not an impossible task, especially when one cares about it. 

[flintheartglomgold]

Jul 31, 2017 20:18:41 GMT RobbK1 said:

Jul 31, 2017 19:08:52 GMT flintheartglomgold said:

I would have to disagree. Most Americans I know have a hard time understanding the Afrikaans accent in English. I have met both Americans and Afrikaners, which includes two ex girlfriends of mine who are Afrikaners, and they do have a very unique accent. 

As a Spanish native speaker, I did had a hard time at first understanding the Afrikaans accent in English, though eventually I can understand it, and I can speak some basic Afrikaans phrases. The Afrikaners I know they did not had a hard time understanding my Spanish accent, though they said they find it beautiful for some reason. 

I can understand that.  Spanish (and all the Latin-based languages have a very pleasant rhythm and cadence.

Thanks. 

How come you say that? I often hear those comments from Germanic language speakers like the Afrikaners for example. 

[Minotaur]

Aug 2, 2017 17:41:15 GMT RobbK1 said:

I find it VERY, VERY hard to believe that someone as young as only 13 could go away from his parents and travel from one continent to another during the very dangerous times of the mid 19th century. That's even too young for really tough boys from much tougher environments than Scrooge had (e.g. places with such violence that children were murdered and killed daily). Anyone that young and physically weak as 13 year old boys are compared to men, wouldn't have had a chance, ESPECIALLY given that he didn't know anyone with whom he could travel, who could protect him. That's why I would guess that the youngest anyone could have been to even attempt that would be age 16. And, I bet that many 16 year olds would have failed in such an adventure. Let's say he was 16 when he left. He'd have been past the age when speech habits are generally frozen. He'd have had a HEAVY Scots Brogue, unless he would put in a LOT of time and hard work to get rid of his accent. But, Scrooge WOULDN'T have thought it worth the time to do that, as America in the mid 1800s, was a polyglot of people from enumerable cultures and languages. So, he would NOT have thought it necessary to his making his fortune for him to rid himself of his Scots accent.

At what ages did Rosa have Hortense and Matilda coming to USA? If they came after age 14 or so, it would have been very difficult for them to get rid of their accents. It would have worn down a bit after 30-40-or 50 years in their new country, but most people that arrive in the new country after age 18 or so, don't lose MOST of their accents no matter HOW MANY years they are there (unless they are actors, or their career depends upon them losing it). 

I am convinced by Neil Postman that the very concept of childhood did not exist before early 19th century. It is an era when kids from poor families had to work before they reached 10. Ten Hours Act issued in 1847 was for workers age from 13 to 18 years old. In Lo$, Scrooge was employed as a cabin boy on that cattle ship traveling from Scotland to America. If it's legit for him to work, it shouldn't be a problem for him to travel with his employer. 

I have talked about the accent in my post above. Just want to add that I can distinguish accents very well, because it's harder for me to understand the conversation if another person speak with accent, while usually that's not a problem for a native speaker. 

[flintheartglomgold]

Aug 3, 2017 5:36:56 GMT Minotaur said:

Aug 2, 2017 18:29:13 GMT Baar Baar Jinx said:

According to Rosa, Matilda was 31 and Hortense was 26 when they moved with Scrooge to the USA. So you're right, neither should have lost their Scottish accents at all. Even leaving Scotland at age 13, Scrooge should have sounded pretty Scottish, so Alan Young's portrayal was right on the money.

I really don't think so. I moved to Australia when I was 19, now when I talked with people they don't even suspect I'm a foreigner here, until I mentioned it. My mother tongue is not even remotely related with English! I know many people who speak fluent English without a trace of their first language, they came from Russia, Italy, Greece and other parts of the world. Of course you have examples like my lab head who came to Australia years ago but still has his British accent, not very strong though. But changing one's accent is definitely not an impossible task, especially when one cares about it. 

I agree with you. My family moved to the USA when I was 11 1/2 years old and my sister she was 9 years old. 

My sister's accent sounds completely American in English, whilst mine is quite noticeable Spanish accent (not very thick, but it is noticeable). But that is because I always been proud of my heritage, and even though I used to live for 14 years in the USA, I did not forget Spanish, To not forget my native tongue, I read Spanish news online, read National Geographic in Spanish. Also, I kept my dress style and fashion style European (especifically like Southern Europeans tend to dress), never dressed like an American nor I like their fashion sense for my taste. 

In the US, I did stick out as a foreigner like a sore thumb as well as my predominantly Mediterranean features stick out, but I did not cared about my fashion sense which often many Americans assumed I was gay (which I am not) or a foreigner, nor about making my accent American. I always had been confident and proud about my roots. 

So yes, one has the choice to fake accents either for convenience, to adapt to a place, or to pretend you are from another country (especially this last one applies if you visit a coutntry that historically has been enemy with one's country). 

[flintheartglomgold]

Aug 3, 2017 6:18:13 GMT Minotaur said:

Aug 2, 2017 17:41:15 GMT RobbK1 said:

I find it VERY, VERY hard to believe that someone as young as only 13 could go away from his parents and travel from one continent to another during the very dangerous times of the mid 19th century. That's even too young for really tough boys from much tougher environments than Scrooge had (e.g. places with such violence that children were murdered and killed daily). Anyone that young and physically weak as 13 year old boys are compared to men, wouldn't have had a chance, ESPECIALLY given that he didn't know anyone with whom he could travel, who could protect him. That's why I would guess that the youngest anyone could have been to even attempt that would be age 16. And, I bet that many 16 year olds would have failed in such an adventure. Let's say he was 16 when he left. He'd have been past the age when speech habits are generally frozen. He'd have had a HEAVY Scots Brogue, unless he would put in a LOT of time and hard work to get rid of his accent. But, Scrooge WOULDN'T have thought it worth the time to do that, as America in the mid 1800s, was a polyglot of people from enumerable cultures and languages. So, he would NOT have thought it necessary to his making his fortune for him to rid himself of his Scots accent.

At what ages did Rosa have Hortense and Matilda coming to USA? If they came after age 14 or so, it would have been very difficult for them to get rid of their accents. It would have worn down a bit after 30-40-or 50 years in their new country, but most people that arrive in the new country after age 18 or so, don't lose MOST of their accents no matter HOW MANY years they are there (unless they are actors, or their career depends upon them losing it). 

I am convinced by Neil Postman that the very concept of childhood did not exist before early 19th century. It is an era when kids from poor families had to work before they reached 10. Ten Hours Act issued in 1847 was for workers age from 13 to 18 years old. In Lo$, Scrooge was employed as a cabin boy on that cattle ship traveling from Scotland to America. If it's legit for him to work, it shouldn't be a problem for him to travel with his employer. 

I have talked about the accent in my post above. Just want to add that I can distinguish accents very well, because it's harder for me to understand the conversation if another person speak with accent, while usually that's not a problem for a native speaker. 

In the DuckTales video I posted, what accent you think Glomgold has?